I had the privilege of being one of the men that the Red Quest asked to provide input on the manuscript for his book, “Sex Clubs, Non-Monogamy, and Game“. He’s finished the book in part with my input and is now giving the book away for free (downloadable at the link).
It’s a unique book based on his years of experience in the sex club / swinger scene in his city. In the first half of the book he covers why a man would want to include sex clubs as part of his game, and in the second half of the book he shares lots of specific examples from his own dating life.
Personally I haven’t had direct experience with sex clubs. I’ve had FFM threesomes, and I once took a 22 year old I was dating to a sex club here in San Francisco. But we left after 10 minutes, the club was slow and frankly we didn’t like the looks of anyone else there. So I was curious to read Red Quest’s take on this scene and how to integrate it into non-monogamous relationship management.
As I’ve written about here and here, it’s your role as a man to lead your woman. Lead her experience and take her to places she’s never been before. Doing this right I’ve been able to keep the attractive women I want in my life, without having to promise monogamy. Women want to be lead by an exciting lover as a means for them to experience the world. And I can see from “Sex Clubs, Non-Monogamy, and Game” that sex clubs could be part of your larger game in doing this leading…if you had the skills and inclination.
After reading this book, here are the positives I see for bringing your girls to sex clubs:
you frame yourself as top tier lover because you’ve opened her to experiences she’s only fantasized about but would never make happen on her own
her attraction for you can increase as she watches you fuck other girls (preselection at its most primal)
you can leverage her for variety both by swapping her with other couples and also having her recruit other girls for you
the sex club scene in your city becomes a long term “ecosystem” / social circle you can leverage for constantly finding new partners – if you have the social savvy and sex skills to be a top-tier guy in the sex club scene in your city
Here are the downsides I see:
I doubt most guys can pull this off – this is advanced level game and your looks, game, and sex skills need to be on point. You need a strong frame and ability to lead
other guys will try and poach your girl
you have to manage not just your relationship with the girl you bring but your relationship with the other couples you play with
most guys won’t enjoy watching “their” girl fuck other guys…even if it means they get to fuck other girls at the same time
From my very limited experience in San Francisco I’m not convinced there are many attractive women in the sex club scene (I’m picky and prefer petite college aged girls)
I think this is a worthwhile read to any one who’s had some curiosity about the sex club world. There’s value here in reading about Red Quest’s advanced level game in action, even if all you’re looking to do is merge girls you’re already dating into a FFM threesome with you.
A lot of men have been talking about end game (RedQuest | Roy Walker | Troy Francis | Krauser / Jimmy Jambone among others). (addition 1/27: Tom Torero weighs in that there is no end game). The question seems to be, “is being a player all there is?” and “what comes after being a player?”. It seems for many that after 5-10 years in the game the rush of getting yet another notch doesn’t do it any more.
I suspect what this ultimately comes down to is that men want pair-bonding. I’m 44 years old and have personally experienced the full range of types of relationships with women, from same day sport fucks to fuck buddies to harems to girlfriends to my marriage (ended 5 years ago).
From this experience I truly believe that sexual pair-bonding with a woman can’t last more than 3-5 years tops, before your relationship degrades into routine without any real spark. This is how nature intended it: pair up long enough to produce offspring and get them into childhood, then rotate to a new partner to diversify your genes. We can’t get around our DNA.
So I’m at peace with being a player forever. As a man you have to be able to bring new women into your life on an ongoing basis, and pair-bond with them as you see fit.
What fits best for me (every man is different) is having 2-4 regular girls at a time in my life, where I see each once a week. In effect this is a portfolio of girls with whom I pair-bond in different ways for as long as the honeymoon period lasts (“sweet spot” might be a better term), in some cases for years and still going.
What I like about this in effect is I’m always in the honeymoon phase, even as girls eventually come and go. It’s on you as the man to manage these relationships properly and keep them fresh.
With hedonic adaptation our brains gets used to routine. I attribute a portion of my satisfaction with this lifestyle to the fact that I never let these mini relationships get routine. I vary up where we go, what we do, how we fuck every single time. How we lead the dance makes a difference in getting more satisfaction and longevity out of these relationships while they last.
None of these relationships will last “forever” because nothing in life lasts forever. There is no end to this process, just like there is no end to exercise and good nutrition. It’s a part of a healthy life and supports you in your higher mission, whatever that is for you.
This is why we have to constantly game and constantly build value as men. We are not meant to rest in life. We’re meant to strive till we die.
I’m at the airport waiting for my flight to Kuala Lumpur. Seems the perfect time to look back at my 12 days here in Bangkok. It’s been the core of my trip this year, I prefer to spend more time in fewer cities when I travel. It helps get a sense of the place and also to allow the time to meet and date girls.
I arrived in Bangkok with a fever from my lung infection and as well as stomach sickness. Cambodia was rough on me. But I knew Bangkok was a more modern city and I was determined to hit the dating sites hard to make the most of my time here. A few rounds of antibiotics finally cleared me up around the time I got here so it was game on.
I prefer to pipeline dates before arriving in a city, but with Bangkok I quickly found the Thai girls are flaky and very short term in nature. They like to book dates the day of or the day before, so although I was working tinder, bumble and OKC before I got here all those leads fizzled. As is usual for a new country I also found I needed to calibrate my game more to the locals. I added Thai Cupid to the sites I normally use and learned to adjust my approach using less English and more exchanges in the apps before pitching a date. I also had to book as many dates as possible, knowing that about half would flake the day of.
This brings me to the biggest difference I found with Thai girls verses any other country in which I’ve dated. Once you’ve agreed a date they text you a lot. Most of it is the girl asking a bunch of “comfort” questions such as “you work here?”, “why are you in Thailand?”, “do you have a girlfriend?” etc. In the end I slept with all three Thai girls I met in person with very little ASD. It felt as if they knew they’d want to sleep with me if they came out to meet, so instead they put their ASD into the texting up front. It was interesting to watch and of course I knew how to handle all the questions.
In the 7 days I gamed I had dates with four girls that actually didn’t flake. One was foreign (Kenyan) and the rest where Thai. I slept with all three Thai girls in the space of 5 days, similar to my results in NYC in May. All three were on the 2nd date. All three girls seemed to want to move towards boyfriend / girlfriend soon, more so than in other countries. I Enjoyed my time with all each of these lucky ladies, but I also missed having girls who speak better English (Vietnam, Hong Kong, and Japan were all much better for that), and I could see I wouldn’t be content dating here full time.
The first girl was a very petite 94 pound 22 year old with the body of a teenager and an extremely tight ass. She was very relaxed and admitted her favorite movie stars were Jason Stratham and Vin Diesel. The girl has her type and found it in me. First date was a one hour coffee date and the 2nd date was a drink at my buildings rooftop bar before heading to my room for “just one more drink.”
The 2nd was a slightly older 27 year old who didn’t speak much English. The first and 2nd dates were mostly done via eye contact, me talking with positive energy, and some google translate. A great reminder you really don’t need words to close the deal, the body language and spark between a man and a woman are much more ancient than human language. She was unsure on the 2nd date about sleeping with me, and we had a long eye contact session where she probed into my eyes and made the decision. No words, but I could see it happen as she made her choice. Very sweet.
The third girl was 19 and one of the most attractive girls I saw in Thailand. 5’7″ and 110 pounds. She was in to me from the start, both because I’m tall and we “fit” together, and also because of my frame. She has a very strong personality but I could sense underneath she was still a girl in search of a strong older man she could feel safe with. She fell into my much stronger fame and we just clicked. She mentioned how everyone found her to be a hard bitch in her social circle but with me she was nothing but a sweetheart. Another reminder that women will fall in to your frame as long as it’s real and congruent with you. Her and I had four dates over two days as I wanted to maximize the time with her before Miss Singapore arrive for my last four days and I shifted to spending all my time with her.
On the whole I found Bangkok a hot mess. Way too crowded, hot, and chaotic for me to be comfortable living there. My take is that it is highly over rated even compared to Saigon, but that westerners rate it highly because it’s cheap and because of the sex industry there. With this trip I have ruled out southeast Asia as a place where I would want to live part or all of the year. But despite the initial calibration frustration the girls I met made up for the roughness of the place. Besides the two girls in Singapore I’ve met over the last year these were some of my favorite girls yet on any of my travels.
I’m relaxing here in my Bangkok apartment after getting three new notches in the last week. I’ve got more leads for this trip but I’m not pursuing them hard. I’ve opted to have miss Singapore, one of my regulars, come to town for my last few days to ring in the new year with me.
In many ways this is a good summary of my 2018 with women. At 44 years old I’m having as much sex as I’ve ever had in my life, but compared to 2016 and 2017 it’s been more focused on a handful of regulars that I like, and less on new girls.
2017 was a banner year for me in game when my process finally came together. I started out 2017 losing one of my favorite girls of all time because I accidentally scheduled a date with her best friend, and so I had to start the year building a rotation from scratch and also frankly also deal with the suck of losing a girl that I had such a strong connection with.
By the end of the year I’ve developed a template for what I look for: young, cute, a bit of an outsider, and wanting to explore the world. In this template I’m the man this lucky girls gets to explore the big world with. It’s the right dynamic for me, and I’ve gotten good at finding the right sort of girls and leading them down this path.
Here are my stats and highlights from 2017:
79 first dates (mostly from online dating)
41 (52%) of these I chose not to pursue
12 (15%) I pursued but couldn’t close
26 (33%) I closed on the 1st date (4), 2nd date (20) or 3rd date (2)
Average age of a new girl was 23 (I turned 43 in mid 2017)
In my average month I slept with 5 different girls
I also had 3 carryover girls from 2016
I had sex 188 times in total, 63% was with four girls
dating a former miss Ukraine I met from nightgame (didn’t close her) while out partying with CMQ and Goldmund
the 19 year old Singaporean track runner
the 19 year old Stanford student
starting things off with “Little me” (18 when we met) who I’m still seeing regularly and is my current favorite
Trips to Miami, Tokyo, NYC, Singapore, and Vietnam
With that background here are my stats and highlights form 2018:
78 first dates (again mostly online dating)
44 (56%) of these I chose not to pursue
15 (19%) I pursued but couldn’t close
18 (24%) I closed on the 1st date (3), 2nd date (13), or 3rd date (2)
1 (1% – Miss Puffy Jacket) are still in play as of this writing
Average age of a new girl was 22 (I turned 44 in mid 2018)
In my average month I slept with 4 different girls
I also had 4 carryover girls from 2017
I had sex 192 times in total, 66% was with three girls
Closing the Singaporean girl and Miss Artsy within 3 days of each other. These are two of my top 10 favorite all time and I continue to see them regularly
3 new girls in 3 days during NYC trip, 3 new girls in 5 days during Bangkok trip
Trips to NYC, Seattle, Portland, San Diego, Las Vegas, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Singapore, Cambodia, Bangkok, and Malaysia
So maybe I’ve hit a plateau in 2018, or maybe having 3 of my 10 all time favorites in my regular rotation at once slowed me down in terms of pursuing new girls. I think I’ve gotten pickier, and have chosen not to pursue marginal girls that I would have in the past just to get the notch. Instead I had my regular girls and new girls came from trips or on occasion when I found one to my liking or felt like some variety.
In addition for the Hong Kong, Singapore, and now for part of the Bangkok trip I’ve chosen to see miss Singapore instead of pursue new girls the whole time (I still closed a few girls on these trips). I had other work trips to several other cities where I didn’t game or fuck that entire trip, and I think that slowed down the notch rate as well.
Could I get better results from daygame? Maybe in another city, but I find it hugely time consuming. I’ve done 25 approaches from it this year and have one open lead back home from it that I may still close.
What I am most happy about is the stability I have with my three regulars. Close connections with each in their own unique way, and all three know the deal and that I see other girls. They are 20, 21, and 29 respectively. All have known my age from the start and all also know that I see other girls. I’ve had no drama with any of them, which again tells me my frame is strong and I’ve internalized the skills of converting girls to me and keeping them happy in my rotation.
2019 for me will be about deciding if I want to stay in San Francisco or move to another city, and also pursue other goals besides new women.
I’m currently in the middle of a three week trip through Cambodia, Thailand, and Malaysia. Every year my company does a two week holiday shutdown where we are forced to take vacation time. I’ve found that it’s incredibly boring and lonely in San Francisco during that time, everyone goes home to the families and everything is closed. It’s also the worst time of year to meet new women. So I use the opportunity to travel and explore the world instead.
Last year I had a tremendous trip to Singapore and Vietnam, together with one of my closest friends. I met one of my favorite girls of all time, a 19 year old Singaporean medical student, and we had a week long mini romance that I will always remember even though I’ll never see her again. I also met the girl I call “miss Saigon”, a gorgeous 18 year old Vietnamese girl, who I saw again on my fall trip to Vietnam. These two girls, plus the 3 weeks of adventure, reminded me of the big world out there that I have not been seeing due to my hip injury limiting my air travel for many years. The fact that I was twice able to meet and build a connection with a very attractive girl within a week of being in each country also was a stark reminder to me that dating in San Francisco is one of the worst locations for men, given the supply of men vs women. It just gets better most anywhere else.
The trip at the end of 2017 made me consider a move to the region. My goal for this trip in 2018, along with my follow up trips to Hong Kong, Singapore and Vietnam this fall, was to see if I’d really want to make the move to the region, and to explore candidate countries. That and enjoying a bit of travel game was my goal. I’ve always been fascinated with the temples at Angkor Wat and I heard Cambodia was a bit of the “wild wild east” and so had to give it a look for myself. I also wanted to check out Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur, as both have relatively easy residence visa programs. So the trip was set.
I prefer to pipeline dates online before I hit a new city. That way my first few days are filled with coffee and bar dates, and from these I can zero in on 1-2 girls I like to close. If daygame or nightgame provides more leads I add them to the list, but I find the pipeline approach is the best way to ensure I meet cute girls quickly in a new city. Talking with Nash at Days of Game who only does daygame confirms this, he finds it takes 2-3 weeks to typically start closing leads from daygame which makes sense. My travel schedule doesn’t permit me to invest that much time in a city so online is the way for me.
This trip I quickly found that online game in Cambodia is almost non-existent. I’m not sure if this is because of low levels of English, or that the girls who are open to date foreigners all work as bar girls and pro’s. But there just were not many girls on any of the dating apps. So I hit the nightclub and bar areas guys mentioned from the forums and quickly found all the attractive girls in these bars were pro’s. I tried my hand at getting a few to leave with me but they all wanted pay for play. I walked around the streets looking for bars that weren’t hooker bars, but everything I saw was bar girls and pros, and a pair of ladyboys even tried approaching me on the street.
The second day went better. A local girl slid into my instagram DM’s and I invited her over to my hotel for a swim. She was nice but unfortunately not up to my standards, so I used the opportunity to learn about good nightlife venues. My friend and I then went to the nicest sky bar in town that night to take in the view and to avoid the hookers. Great sunset view, and sure enough I spotted a cute girl drinking by herself which made for an easy opener. I managed to pull her to my hotel bar for a second drink. But I couldn’t pull her up to my place to “see the amazing view”. So it goes.
The third day though I woke up with a lung infection and spent the next 24 hours in bed with a fever. So much for my time in Phnom Penh. My friend and I went to Siem Reap and spent the next three days visiting the temples. It was hot and humid and I had a fever but I toughed it out, sleeping my way to recovery.
I did not close a Cambodian girl in Cambodia (I have closed a Cambodian american girl back home). I’d have needed to spend more time in Phnom Penh and learn where the locals hang out, and focused on day game and night game. But despite the challenges and the pain of being sick the temples were well worthwhile. And the whole week I knew 12 days in Bangkok was next on the itinerary.
Life is at best bittersweet. We all have ups and downs and often it’s how you respond to the downs that make the different between a happy and an unhappy life. We have to embrace the challenges life throws at us, making progress on this frankly is what makes life satisfying. If it were all ups and no downs we’d go crazy, like the young guys who make a fortune selling a company and wind up dead a few years later from a drug overdose.
I was reminded of this yesterday. I’ve had this damn plantar wart on the left ball of my foot for years. I was a runner and pounded it deep into my foot, and I didn’t treat it since It thought it was a callous. It was only when it started to throw off my gait that I had it checked out and started treatment. I started treatment 3 years ago. This mean cryo-freezing my foot and limping on it for days – every 6 weeks. For 3 fucking years.
It didn’t want to get better and I was sick of the painful process, but I stuck with it. Last month the damn thing just up and disappeared. It was big one day and a few days later it was like it never existed. The treatments finally stimulated my immune system to eliminate the virus.
More detail than you wanted to know. But a great little reminder of exactly how life is. We have to know when to persevere, often for years without much feedback, but this is how to succeed.
I believe there are two main romantic templates between men and women. They come from childhood and are hard wired into the human brain. And I believe this sheds some light on what guys ado wrong these days and also hat we as men can do right.
For lack of better words to describe the two romantic templates (dynamics) a man can experience with a woman are:
mommy / son
daughter / daddy
Women experience the same two but I’ll explain it from the man’s perspective since that’s what I know. We grow up as boys experience unconditional love from our mother (hopefully – if she didn’t provide this then the boy is fucked).
A healthy mother loves you no matter what, and takes care of you. As it should be.
The problem is that when boys grow up and start dating and start looking for this mommy / son dynamic in the women they date.
Your girlfriend or wife is not your mother. She can never love you unconditionally, only instead for what you ring to her life. Most guys don’t understand this, and it is trying to make this dynamic work is the dynamic of the beta male.
The other romantic dynamic is daughter / daddy. This is not meant as an Electra complex …but in that you are the man and you lead. You are older and more experienced and you take care of things and also set boundaries.
A father does not rely on his daughter to take care of him or provide support, he does this for her. Loving you for playing this role in her life is the only way a woman can love a man that’s not her actual father.
And this love is entirely conditional. Unconditional love is saved for her children.
This dynamic is what women crave. Whenever I have given this gift to women they are happy. The burden of man is that he had to lead and support, and he can’t burden his women with his problems.
In addition it helps to have an air of gravitas and mystery to her, just like she gets from her actual father. This is a deeply ingrained template in our DNA, you can’t deviate from it.
Men can only be loved unconditionally from their actual mother. It’s a burden we bear but I can tell you from hard experience that the joy and feminine energy you will unleash in your women from doing this right offsets that downside.
When she trusts you are strong enough to lead this dynamic she will feel safe and blossom with you.