(On other words, how to keep your financial freedom and ability to have side women while living with your main girl)
I was married for over a decade before I finally got divorced 7 years ago. And I can confidently tell you that I will never get legally married again. Unless she makes way more money than you there’s no upside as a man, but there can be a ton of downside to getting married.
So why did I bother reading the “Ultimate Marriage Manual“? Because I could some day see myself living with a woman again. Not now but some day.
But I’d only live with a woman if I set things up properly and on my terms.
Don’t let the “open marriage” in the title fool you…this book is really about how to live with a woman on your terms (regardless of legal structure), which is something most men want to do at some point in their lives.
As with all of Caleb’s stuff, these are the books I wish I had when I was 14 years old and first trying to understand what it meant to be a man, how things really worked beneath the veneer of society, and are what the rules and process to follow to get the results you want.
TL:DR – If what you want is to live with a woman on your terms, than this is the book to learn how to do that (the author uses “marriage” to mean any time you live with a woman, regardless of legal status).
Arguably the biggest decision a man will ever make is whether to have children and what woman will be the mother of his child. And related to that question is whether or not you will ever want to live with a woman.
Most men naturally seem to want this at some point, and yet doing this wrong has the potential to have the biggest negative effect on your life of any choice a man can make.
It doesn’t have to be, but it has that risk. The last time I lived with a woman I made all kinds of mistakes.
I didn’t like my apartment at the time, and I needed a surgery on my hip that would leave me immobile for a month. My girlfriend at the time (who was looking to settle down) “innocently” suggested that I live with her in her place. I’d save a lot of money on rent and she’d be able to take care of me while I recover.
Not thinking past a few months out, it seemed like a great idea at the time. Of course, I’d been cheating on her regularly since I never stopped dating other women even after she gave me an ultimatum early in the relationship to be exclusive and I didn’t think through what living together would mean with that.
After a few months I found I hated not having my freedom and having to see her every single day took a lot of the joy out of the relationship. I started dating even more women on the side. My girlfriend eventually found my supply of condoms and realized I’d been fucking other girls the whole time, and we had an ugly breakup where we fought nightly until I could find a new place to live. Not fun.
I got off easy. My divorce cost me half my net worth. My breakup with my girlfriend was an ugly affair that caused me a lot of drama and daily fights for weeks. But there could have been larger legal issues, child custody issues, and more if I had been less lucky. These are just a few examples of how a man can fuck up from my own personal experience. There are countless other pitfalls as well.
The best way to avoid all this is to do what I’ve done the past 5 years since the breakup with my last girlfriend – date multiple women at the same time, don’t see any one woman more than once a week, don’t call or text too often….you can get close to them but don’t get too close so you avoid getting burned.
This actually has been good for me for several years, and I think for some men it’s enough for the rest of their lives.
But at another level I believe most men want to pair bond and have children. It’s in our DNA and you can argue that passing along a legacy to your children is the entire point of life.
Everyone’s life goes in phases and there will likely come a phase where a man is ready to bond more deeply with one women over the others and move in with her.
But how do you do this on your terms and avoid all the legal pitfalls and loss to your freedom?
This book sets the framework for how to do it right.
Here is a list of just a few things I took away from the “Ultimate Marriage Manual” that I’m sure I’ll use some day when I actually live with a woman:
How to create an open relationship with your girl in the first place.
How to decided whether or not you want to live with a woman.
When you do decide to live with a woman, how to structure the logistics and financial aspects to protect your future income and assets, while also giving you the freedom you need to do your own thing (including banging fuck buddies on the side as part of your open relationship).
How to maintain her attraction for the length of the relationship (there is no end game even when you live with a woman) and ensure you get the sex you want. A big part of this when you live with a woman is preventing “Betaization”.
Various optimal living arrangements with a woman, including having your own additional separate place for your side girls.
How to balance the time you spend together vs the time you spend apart.
Specific process and techniques for minimizing and correcting her drama and handling emotional situations with her. These are especially useful when you can’t “soft next” her because you live in the same place.
Legal factors to consider in addition to keeping finances separate, include asset protection strategies and cohabitation agreements.
Additional things to consider to make all of this successful if you also have kids.
Most men could go through divorce and bad breakups like me and never figure out all of the above on their own.
But here it all is in one place. Everything you need to live with a woman on your own terms.
I’d highly recommend this book to any man who dates women.
I don’t write many lay reports because I find them boring.
Good seduction competently follows Mystery’s attraction, comfort, escalation model and so lay reports tend to get repetitious. I’m much more interested in the principles of game that you can use repeatedly to get ongoing results than any one particular story.
Knowing the underlying principles means you can get repeat results. Recently I pulled together a threesome with my main girl and a new one I met, and taking RPD’s excellent advice I wanted to write this lay report to crystallize for myself what I did right while my thoughts are fresh. I intend to do more of these in the future.
I have to credit Red Quest and his book as well as Hector Beaman’s tweets on “Game 3.0” as well. They left me feeling that I could be pushing my envelope and doing more threesomes as well as better leveraging my relationships with my regulars.
From these guys and my own experience I’ve had the nagging feeling that many of the girls I date would be up for threesomes if I set things up right, and it’s been a goal for me to get better at this. The more I date the more I learn just how sexual women are, but at the same time they must be led and are often just waiting for the right man to create opportunities for them.
Over the course of 2019 I’ve increasingly become closer to one of my regular girls in particular. She started out as something casual several years ago but over time we’ve developed a close bond and we have each other’s trust. She knows I will always date multiple women and encourages it, and she has earned her position as my main girl.
This main girl of mine is very sexual and open minded like me, but she is not bi-sexual or in to girls.
So my first approach to setting up a threesome was verbalizing threesome fantasies to her once in a while as part of the dirty talk we have during sex. I’d let her enjoy the fantasy of having another girl as an additional “fuck toy” for us to enjoy together, bringing this up occasionally when fucking in an intensely sexual state.
This planted the seed made her open to the experience (learning 1 below). I’d also tell her how exciting it would be for her to watch my pleasure and enjoy another girl. This would get her excited, and I could see the potential was there.
With the seed planted I gave my main the homework of finding a friend for us to play with. She’s still in her early 20’s and girls in the 18-23 range tend to be the most sexually open, so the possibility was there. This could have worked because she did try (learning 2 below), but the few candidate girls in her social circle are currently cuffed so this avenue wasn’t going to come through any time soon.
I thought about bringing in one of my other regular girls. But as I felt them out verbally they all indicated that they either weren’t into girls and/or that they would feel jealous or uncomfortable. At the same time I didn’t want to create drama main girl by introducing her to a girl that I have an ongoing thing with. My mistake here was that I wasn’t planting the seed for threesomes with my other regulars from the start (learning 1 once again). It was clear that a threesome at this point would best be done with a new girl.
My main girl, bless her heart, also tried to complete the homework I gave her of finding us another girl by using an online dating app made especially for threesomes. But the matches on there were mostly couples, and beyond that the quality was very poor.
So with this as with all things related to women I realized it would be up to me entirely to make things happen (learning 3 below). My mental block was that I liked where I was with my main girl and I didn’t want to change our current dynamic or initiate drama since we’re in a very good place.
Then in passing she asked me, “When are you going to find a threesome for us?”. Very subtle. This was my sign to get up off my ass and make it happen.
At the time she brought this up, I had already set up a first date with a cute middle-eastern girl I met online for the next day. The new girl had just texted me to confirm our date, which is a positive sign that her interest in me was high.
Because my main girl was completely in at this point and the new girl seemed on from the texting I decided to go for it. I told my main girl that a cute new girl her age was texting me, and suggested that the three of us go out for drinks together and see what happens. She was in.
So I pitched the date via text to the new girl like this:
The lesson I learned from feeling out my regulars is that pitching things verbally was too direct. So from this text onward I kept things indirect verbally and instead relied upon my actions and leadership to make it happen (learning 4).
I have no doubt that the new girl understood everything from the moment I sent the above text, but at no time did I verbalize the intent. Instead I led both girls strongly through the date to make the experience happen (learning 5). As you shall see.
With the date confirmed I ran my standard first date model. My main girl and I met the new girl at a nice bar and I led us through a one hour conversation.
We sat around a small table and I made sure to sit in the middle so I can touch both girls gently as needed. The first few minutes were get to know you small talk as we ordered drinks and I’d include the occasional light tease to spike things up. I then transitioned in to relationship talk to get things interesting, asking new girl about her dating history, the types of men she likes, where she likes to travel and so on.
My main girl blurted out at one point, “you can’t ask her that!” when I asked why her last relationship ended and we were only 15 minutes in to the date, but new girl and I both smiled and she happily answered. Don’t ever take dating advice from women. It was important to break the ice and set an intimate tone without being too overtly sexual until comfort was built.
New girl was very introverted and she would give short answers to my questions. My main girl is outgoing but she was fairly quiet throughout, although I ensured all three of us were included in the conversation. I could tell main girl was enjoying seeing this side of me and she was also deferring to my leadership. So I had to do most of the conversational work, much more than I normally do on a first date.
We were all a bit nervous and excited as well knowing what was likely going down. Both girls are extremely attractive, and I believe this helped create more attraction in them to me via pre-selection. I kept the energy high and the vibe light and fun, and didn’t get into sexual topics since my feel of the situation was that the three of us being together on a date was enough of a sexual charge as it was. The attraction was there and my focus was on building comfort.
I sensed all of us were feeling a bit nervous despite sensing that everything was completely on. I instinctively knew the girls would feel what I feel and follow my lead so I kept a happy and playful vibe and mixed in plenty of comfort topics along with the subject of dating and occasional tease, of both girls. I did my best to bring out fun conversation from both girls. I normally don’t play such an extroverted role on dates, but since the girls were nervous I had to keep the right vibe and energy going (learning 6).
I made sure to take a break during the date to use the bathroom (something my main girl and I planned prior) so that the girls could talk and get to know each other 1:1. My main girl later said this helped them connect with each other better and made them more comfortable (learning 7).
At around the hour mark I could feel the energy ebbing and that it was time to bounce. The bar was a block away from my place (always have your logistics sorted – learning 8) and without saying where we were going I suggested we get another drink, which the girls readily agreed to.
Then the waiter comes and tells me they overcharged me for drinks and needed to re-bill me. My main girl later said she thought they wanted to check me out since I was an older man with two attractive young women in their early 20’s. I don’t think this was the case, but since we were losing momentum and the overcharge was something like $20 I just took the girls and left. Momentum is key (learning 9).
I walked them straight to my place keeping small talk going the whole time. When we arrived I told new girl, “I live right here, why don’t we just have a drink at my place?” and she agreed. Up we all went. My main later teased me for how smooth the suggestion was. To be honest, from the time of new girl’s response to my suggestion to bring my main girl above and also from the fact that new girl showed up to the date I never had a doubt that it was on, as long as I led us through properly.
I went to put on music and took my time so the girls could have a bit more 1:1 time. My main girl had another drink and new girl and I had water. The three of us sat next to each other on the couch with me in the middle. My legs were touching a girl on either side, my main girl to the left and new girl on the right.
Throughout the date I was making eye contact with my main girl to ensure she was good (learning 10). She would eye code me that she was. Sitting on the couch I checked in with her again non-verbally as we all made small talk. Green light. New girl would later comment how she could see the connection between my main girl and I. I’m sure this helped build comfort and pre-selection.
It being January it was a bit cold and I was trying not to shiver. It was time to escalate. I did what I normally do when going for the kiss, which was to just finish a sentence and let the conversation pause, while I gently and confidently held new girl’s arm and pulled her in to me for the kiss.
I kissed her gently but passionately for a few seconds and then I pulled back to give her a moment to take it all in. I could tell her heart was pounding.
Then I turned to my left to my main girl and did the same with her. She was all smiles. I went back and kissed new girl deeper and longer, and then alternated again giving the girls equal time (learning 11).
Although more of the conversation up until this point was focused on new girl since she was getting to know us, from this point on in the date I made sure to give equal sexual attention to both. If I was making out with one girl I was sure to be at least touching the other girl.
Then I suggested the two of them kiss each other and they refused…like two shy little school girls. I took this as a sign they just weren’t bi-sexual and so I knew that this was going to be a threesome where I would need to do most of the work.
Unfazed by the minor non-compliance I had new girl face and straddle me as I sat on the couch and I made out with her more. I used this position to reach around and finger her from behind while I sucked on her tits getting her very worked up. I needed to get her going to calm her nerves. I knew once aroused the girls would be willing to go further sexually.
I took off her dress and then made out with my main girl some more while rubbing new girl’s pussy. Being familiar with me, my main girl didn’t need as much foreplay and I could tell she was getting turned on by seeing me expertly seduce another attractive girl in front of her.
With the girls heated up I led them both by the hand to the bedroom and had them strip naked as I got naked as well. With my nerves and excitement I wasn’t yet fully hard. So I had them both girls kneel down in front of me and take care of that for me, with new girl sucking on the head while my main girl worked the shaft. It’s one of the best visuals a man can see.
I lifted new girl up and put her on the bed and my main girl joined us. I started going down on new girl while at the same time fingering my main girl. After going down on new girl I fucked her first. I wanted to keep up the momentum with her so she wouldn’t get cold feet.
Once we started fucking she really got in to it. I used a condom on new girl and would take it off with my main girl. I’d switch girls every 5-10 minutes or so and fuck them in different positions as well. There was a feeling of intensity between me and each girl while I was fucking her, the eye contact with both was extremely strong and intense.
My guiding principle for the session was to ensure no girl was ever left out. So as I would fuck one I’d make the other suck her tits or make out with the girl being fucked. I would finger a girl while I fucked the other one. Or have a girl play with my balls while I’m fucking the other. I tend to go long during sex and I’m in shape, so a threesome like this is a complete physical workout and yet there is more to be aware of with the extra girl.
After going through three condoms in this way the girls were very in to it and had no problem kissing each other. New girl also went down on my main girl and asked to scissor her, and main girl happily agreed.
I was finally ready to finish . I had my girl on her knees again sucking my balls while new girl titty fucked me, and then I pulled them together to take my full load on their tits. It was a very sexy scene.
I like to cuddle after sex so I pulled them both onto the bed with me and had my main girl on my left and the new girl on my right.
With the afterglow we went back to small talk some more. This is where I learned that new girl was born in Iraq (I’d have guessed she was Greek she was very fair), this had been her first threesome, and lots more. New girl commented how main girl and I connect a lot non-verbally which she liked.
The date had started at 7pm and it was about 10pm. 1 hour at the bar, 30 minutes transition, and 90 minutes of sex with cuddling. None of us had eaten. So I suggested a little place down the street for dinner and off we went. After dinner new girl ubered home and my main girl came back with me to spend the night.
I won’t go in to details but my main girl confirmed to me once we were alone that we were closer than ever.
She already knew that I’m good with women and I will always date multiple girls, but this time she saw me in action with a girl as least as attractive as she is. I had led and made an amazing experience happen for us. In retrospect I think my fears of drama were overblown. Making this threesome happen allowed me to directly demonstrate many of the qualities in a man that Jimmy Jambone points out are key for attraction:
Positive, passionate, ambitious
Indifference (outcome independent)
Finally I have to say there was an element of luck. A lot of girls would have ghosted after my suggestion text while instead new girl came out. I will be trying this process more often so I’ll find out just how much came down to finding the right girl.
This exercise of writing everything down in detail has also helped me see there was a lot of good game on my part at at the very least I didn’t fuck things up with two “yes” girls.
I look forward to the future experiences to come.
Magnum’s Threesome Game Takeaways:
Set the frame from the first time you meet a girl that you’re a sexual, non-judgmental guy. Plant the seed with women you date as part of your sexual dirty talk that a threesome would be fun for you and her to enjoy together.
Give girls you date the homework to find other girls for threesomes.
Although it’s good to give your women homework to find other girls, don’t rely on this alone. As the man it’s up to you to make things happen.
When pitching the actual threesome date to a girl you don’t know well, be indirect. Instead just suggest another friend joins for a drink or that you hang out at your place. Give girls plausible deniability.
Threesomes take even stronger leading than a normal 1:1 date. You as the man have to lead the girls through the entire process.
You set the vibe and energy throughout and be prepared to do most of the conversational work.
Give the girls some time 1:1 during the first date together if they don’t know each other well in order to help them connect girl to girl.
Always have your logistics planned in advance. If you don’t meet straight at your place meet somewhere very nearby to keep the bounce home short. Have condoms ready at your place. Logistics are fundamental.
Keep the momentum moving. Use your instincts and experience of when attraction and comfort have been achieved, and don’t miss your window for isolating and escalating to sex. You have two girls to bring through the seduction process so be mindful of both and where you are in the process all together.
If you’re having a threesome with a girl you’re seeing regularly, be sure to agree ground rules with her up front. Give her comfort that the threesome won’t change your dynamic, and also check in with her non-verbally throughout the date.
With a threesome you’re dating two girls, give them both attention. Eye contact, conversation, foreplay, sex. Don’t give all your attention to one at the expense of the other. This is a threesome…not you fucking a girl while the other one watches.
Magnum is living large. He’s tall, good-looking, traveling the world, having sex with lots of young women. He also has an excellent blog, with his famous first date model and a simple nutrition guide that I liked a lot. Here’s my interview with Magnum. He’s got a lot of knowledge to share, so pay attention.
Fifteen Questions with Magnum
1. Basic biographical info Name: Magnum Age: 45 Height: 6’3″ Lifetime bangs: low triple digits
2. How did you discover Game? Who were your biggest influences? I discovered game by finding Roissy in DC’s blog back in 2008. This was before it became Heartiste. Back then Roissy was just taking off, and over the next few years he put to words a lot of the concepts that influenced later writers. I know both Blackdragon and Krauser have credited Roissy as a big influence, and those two guys along with Tom Torero would be my next biggest influences. Blackdragon for online game and relationship management, and Krauser and Torero for daygame and texting game (Mr V‘s recently published text game summary is also outstanding). I also learned a lot from Christian McQueen and Goldmund when it comes to approaching, non-verbal game, drawing women in to you, and getting women addicted to how you fuck them.
3. Everything you know about women, can you distill it down to 5 key points? There’s an art to women that goes well beyond just a few points. But in terms of essential frameworks that span across your every interaction with women, these are the three key themes that come to mind:
A) You are her daddy. She is not your peer, she is your girl. This means you lead. You alone are responsible for every interaction and making things go well, from choosing what you do when out, to how the sex will go down, to punishing bad behavior. This is what she wants. She will test your conviction if she senses weakness, but once you’ve proven your strength and leadership she will naturally become feminine and crave your leadership. It’s the dynamic that is meant to be between women and men.
B) Push/pull should be infused in your every interaction with women. Your relationships with women, from opening them on the street, to texting, to dates, to sex, to ongoing relationship management at whatever level you choose – it’s a dance. You are leading her emotions and enabling experiences for the both of you, experiences she can feel. She feels this through the ups and downs. You compliment her, and then you follow it with a tease. You tease her on the date and bring up sexual topics, and then you switch to normal comfort topics in the very next sentence like it’s no big deal. You fuck her hard telling her what a dirty little slut she is while you choke her, and then you slow it down and tell her how close you feel to her and how you can tell by how wet she is that she’s been missing you while you let her feel your affection. You take her on a fun adventure date, and then you don’t text her for a few days. The worst sin with women is to be boring…push/pull done well ensures you never will be.
C) As a man you need to have a larger mission in life than your woman. This is what gives you the true outcome independence that will keep you unaffected by the ups and downs of dating. You need to have spent time on your own in learning who you are, and what you want to achieve in life. These achievements have to be meaningful, long term things that excite you, and cannot be just about women. When you have this larger purpose in life, and you are making progress towards that, you will be happy. This ties to being daddy. Women can feel if you are a man and if you have this purpose, or if you’re lost. It makes you outcome independent. Did a girl flake on your date that night? No problem, that means you get to work on your real passion whatever that is. Is a girl you’re seeing giving you drama? No problem, just next her. You’ve got more important things to do than spend time with any one woman who doesn’t meet your standards of behavior. Outcome independence makes you much more attractive to women as well as a bi-product. They want to be apart of a man’s world, they do not want to be a man’s world. I view women like I view good nutrition. It’s necessary but sufficient. If you fuck up your nutrition or your dating life it will have a big negative impact on your life. But having good nutrition or a good dating life alone is not enough to be happy overall as a man, we are much bigger than that.
4. Since your divorce, you’ve been traveling a lot and having a lot of success with women. Do you have a favorite type of girl (ethnicity, body type, hair color)? Has that changed at all from the woman you married? I’ve been consistent my adult life in that I prefer petite, feminine, slender women with dark hair. I also prefer women who are intelligent, highly sexual, and typically have some sort of outsider status to them, which can mean a lot of different things. When I first started dating again after my divorce I was dating women from their late 20’s into their late 30’s. But as I gained experience and improved my game and dating I learned that I prefer younger women and I learned how to meet them. The average age of the girls I’ve slept with since 2016 is 24, while the average age between my divorce in 2013 and the end of 2015 was 31. I see this as a good improvement.
5. I’m curious about what you mean by women with “outsider status”. Can you give an example? Why are you attracted to this type of woman, is it because they’re more interesting or unpredictable? When I say “outsider status” I’m borrowing a Krauser term, one of the many good ones he’s defined in game. By outsider status I mean that the girl at least views herself as in some way outside of the mainstream for girls her age. That can mean a lot of different things, such as, she’s an introvert, or into a certain party or music sub culture, or she’s into older guys and BDSM, or whatever. The important thing is this is part of her self image, and so consistent with that self image she’s at least open to dating a man like me who’s much older than her and outside of her normal social circle. I find girls who have this outsider status tend to be more intelligent and more interesting as well. I enjoy the process of learning how they think and also about the various subculture interests they have.
6. Reading your blog, you seem to be successful in everything you do: finances, fitness, women, travel, basically everything. What’s next? My number one goal in life right now is to continue to fix a collection of old injuries that have left me with chronic pain. More than anything else I can do, that will improve my life from where I am now. I’m making progress and I’m optimistic I can finally put it to rest in 2020, but it’s a long term goal not entirely in my control. Frankly nothing else matters if you don’t have your health.
My next biggest goal is to get my side consulting business to the profit goals for it that I have for this year. I have a full time job that I love, but I’ve enjoyed starting up something on the side completely from scratch that I own with no partners.
Beyond that, my main girl and I are looking to have a kid in line with my blog post on the subject. This means having the kid and raising him together in a way that also protects my independence.
The best answer a girl ever gave me was, “I fall in love when I think I may have a future with the man” and I think that sums up a lot about women. Women are the practical sex, while men are the true romantics. It’s evolutionary. In the hunter gatherer state in which we evolved women can’t take care of themselves, nature’s too brutal. They need a strong man to do that, and women are evolved to find that man.
So in a nutshell I believe we love that which is in our best interest to pass along our genes. For women that’s a strong, “alpha” man who also has the potential to take care of her long term. For men it’s the girl with better reproductive value than the others in his life, the one guys will describe as “she’s really hot and not like the rest!”
7. What are some quotes/concepts that have helped guide you through life?It’s not a quote or concept but I internalized early in life that I own my own results. Good or bad, my outcomes in life are my responsibility and based on my decisions and action.I played American football as well as rugby when I was in school. We had good coaches and it was a very hard program in that the teams at our school trained longer and more intensely than the teams at the other schools we played. This made that program consistently successful year in and year out regardless of specific players on the team. As a player in that program you worked hard every single day and you never quit, 4 plus hours a day 6 days a week. More than anything I internalized that I own my own results and that perseverance is the biggest factor in achieving any results you want to get, and that as much as anything has got me what success I’ve had.
8. A weakness you’ve overcome, and how did you overcome it?I wouldn’t call it a weakness, but I’m an INTJ and a fairly strong introvert, which can work against you in game. I think this is especially true in the US which has an extroverted culture. So I play to my strengths. I’m not the type of guy who’s going do well opening groups of girls in a club, but I’m quite naturally the “strong, quiet type” that a lot of women really like and I’m a good conversationalist with them 1:1 in a chill place. So for example I play to this strength on first dates by leading the conversation through questions and let the girl talk about herself. She enjoys feeling heard and feels more connected to me, and at the same time I come across as mysterious which draws women in, and I’m happy to let her do 90% of the talking. We all have to find our own style within game that suits our personality, and I’ve found mine over the course of doing hundreds of dates over the years.
9. Your thoughts on love?I’ve been meaning to do a post on this when I’ve got my thoughts collected. I actually like asking women on a first date if they’ve ever been in love and what it was that made them fall in love.The best answer a girl ever gave me was, “I fall in love when I think I may have a future with the man” and I think that sums up a lot about women. Women are the practical sex, while men are the true romantics. It’s evolutionary. In the hunter gatherer state in which we evolved women can’t take care of themselves, nature’s too brutal. They need a strong man to do that, and women are evolved to find that man.So in a nutshell I believe we love that which is in our best interest to pass along our genes. For women that’s a strong, “alpha” man who also has the potential to take care of her long term. For men it’s the girl with better reproductive value than the others in his life, the one guys will describe as “she’s really hot and not like the rest!”This by the way is why I think future projection is such a powerful tool for players. If you effectively get a girl thinking she has a good future with you, then she has a good chance in falling in love with you. On the dark side of game this is exactly what pimps do.This also goes back to being daddy. Yes it feels good to love a woman who’s earned that from you. But you can’t let emotion cloud your judgement. You still have to lead. You still have to enforce your boundaries. You still have to put your mission in life first before your woman. Give your girl the gift of being swept off her feet and feeling the up and down emotions that go with love. Give her the gift of pleasing you and supporting you as your woman. You as the man can enjoy being in love too, but you can’t let that change your values or behaviors because as the man you have to lead.
10. Your thoughts on having children?I don’t have any children yet but I’ve realized this past year that I would like to have them at some point. After talking to a few men who have had kids and also understand game and the nature of men and women, I put together my thoughts in this post last year:Having Kids on My Terms – Magnum’s 7 Point ChecklistMy main girl has agreed with me on these terms and we’ve put a parenting agreement in place. We’re looking to have a kid exactly along the lines of my post some time in the next 1 to 3 years. We’ll see how that goes.
11. What are some common mistakes you see younger guys making, both in life and with women?The biggest mistake I see men make is that they don’t have a large, meaningful purpose in life with meaningful goals that has nothing to do with women. I also see that a lot of guys are inherently lazy and don’t want to do the work, or only want to improve enough to get a certain result and then stop.Life doesn’t work that way. For a man there is no stop to the hustle. Until you die. You need to have goals to work towards so you can experience the joy of progress, or you will not have a sense of satisfaction with your life. You need to always have game and leadership in your relationships with women, from fuck buddies to long term girls.Being successful in life is like being successfully fit – you don’t just diet for a while and then go back to your old habits. It’s a life long daily effort. Frankly I wouldn’t have it any other way.I wrote two blog posts last year with more thoughts on this:“There is no end game” is about the fact that as a man you must perform until you die (which is as it should be).“The secret to happiness” is about how our brains are actually wired to only be happy when we’re making progress, and how to design your life accordingly.
12. I imagine you’ve dated some very attractive women. Have you ever dated what you consider a 9 or 10? Did you have to do anything different to seduce her? Was she fundamentally different from a 7 or 8, or was she more similar than different? I have dated two girls that both well established professional models. There was nothing different at all about dating them, the trick is actually finding and meeting them. One gave me an IOI at a club when I was talking to other girls, and the other was a daygame open on a hot Sunday afternoon. In both cases I didn’t know anything about their jobs, so I treated them like I would any other girl, which helps.
13. Did you ever have any sticking points or insecurities with women, or were you more of a natural growing up?Like I said, it’s not a sticking point but as a big introvert approaching is not my strength. That was the most critical piece for me in improving my game and getting the amount of experience I’ve had. And it’s work. As men we will always have the burden of initiating. I’ve found you have to get it to a process so it doesn’t crowd out your other priorities of the week.The other sticking point I had was originally I was talking too much on dates, which can often kill the vibe and her attraction. I learned it’s better to let her do most of the talking, while I listen, touch her, and give good eye contact.
14. “The best thing about women is _____.”Their feminine energy. Life for a man without women is all work and no play. Women add a sweetness to a man’s life that can’t be found in any other way. I love and enjoy them. The key is learning how to lead them properly.—Follow Magnum on Twitter and on his blog.
Flakes. I can’t think of another topic that gets men more upset when it comes to dating.
You approach. You do the work. You get her number. You text her. You’re charming. She’s getting quality attention and validation from you, even as you keep your game tight. You schedule a date. You block out the time on you calendar which is time you could have used to date another girl instead.
She texts you right before that she can’t make it based on some lame excuse.
Or worse yet you show up to the date venue and she never does.
Is there anything more frustrating?
Last week for example I had 3 flakes out of 6 dates scheduled. And 2 of the 3 girls who didn’t flake were regulars.
Keep in mind I’m in my mid 40’s and these girls are in the 18-23 year old range, and in an American city where there are quite a bit more men than women. I’ve found flake rates go way down with women closer to you in age as well as in cities with a better ratio.
Yes women are random and some of the flaking is due to random shit that comes up. But there’s also a method to the randomness. Girls are filtering for their best option, both between men as well as social options.
Girl subconsciously filter men based on a man’s internal character – is he good enough to get past my roadblocks? And girls “womb guard”. They know if you spend enough time with them alone there’s a chance you’ll put your DNA in her so subconsciously they need to feel you are worthy.
Women also are constantly considering you against the other men she has access to and frankly you need her to feel you’re her best option.
So what’s a man to do?
There will always be a degree of flaking in your dating life. It’s unavoidable. But in my experience the best approach is twofold:
Be the best alternative you can be compared to all her other options
Have an alternative as good as a date with her in the event she flakes
Let me break it down.
1. Being her best alternative is something you can influence, but can’t control. You do this through standard game techniques:
Ping text a few hours after you get her number (her response here is one of the biggest indicators you’ll get of her interest).
Try to minimize time between when you get her number and when you schedule the date. For every day between your odds of flaking go up.
Once your date is scheduled, continue to text her every 1-2 days to keep her interested. Mix it up and keep it interesting. Share “windows to your world” (mini DHV’s). Mildly tease her and occasionally spike things up. Avoid becoming her text buddy but give her enough to remember the real person you are. This means combining attraction and comfort material.
If you meet her online, or if it will be a few days before you can actually meet, suggest a short phone or video chat. Keep it short (less than 10 minutes), tease her but also throw in comfort. This is essentially a mini first date. Be sure to be the one to end the call first (you’re a man in demand).
Send a reminder text the day before or the day of the date. Don’t ask “are we still on?” That is weak. Instead show confidence that she will be there with something like, “Hey miss trouble. Looking forward to meeting you tomorrow at Bar X at 9. Be sure to dress cute, so we match ;)” (hat tip Krauser).
Schedule dates for times when girls have less alternative activities. My favorite nights for first dates are Tuesday and Wednesday, followed by Monday. Girls like to lay low Sunday night (high flake rate) and Thursday through Saturday night are often out with friends to bars or dating other guys they know better. I tend to schedule dates for girls I haven’t yet fucked for Monday – Wednesday and for regulars Thursday through Saturday.
Keep in mind I mostly date women 18-23. Older women may only be free Thursday – Saturday night due to responsibilities. So know your target demographic and the times when they are most free.
There are times of the year when women flake more or are less interested in meeting new men. Summer (especially August) is a horrible time to get girls out because of constant parties and travel. Likewise the holidays are the worst time of year for meeting and gaming new girls.
Conversely, January through March and also September through October are my absolute favorite times to game. Girls are back in school from holidays and travel, and are often looking to meet new guys as they shed their last relationship. There’s an annual ebb and flow.
Some girls have random schedules, so flexibility helps. If you can, be willing to do afternoon coffee dates or drinks at random times.
Double book. If you’re on a trip and only have a few nights in town, or if your city is especially flaky for some reason, double book. Worst case you end up having to be the one that flakes (happened to me on a NYC trip this year).
You can stagger dates. Fore example you can have a Friday date #1 afternoon coffee date, Friday date #2 drinks at 6pm, and a Friday date #3 drinks at 8:30pm. If one or even two flake it’s no big deal.
I find younger women (18-23) are more flakey than older women. In part because they’re young but also in part because the prospect of meeting an established older man makes them nervous, even if they’re highly attracted. It’s out of their comfort zone. To balance this out, consider doing a bit more texting and comfort with girls much younger than you. I don’t recommend sexual escalation with younger girls until you’ve already done attraction and comfort with them in person on a date and are ready to isolate for the close.
Don’t get too sexual before the first date, especially if you meet her online. It’s often a thirst trap. I find it’s far better to mix teasing and fun banter with comfort and DHV’s. Save the sexting for girls you’re already fucking.
Don’t get too invested in any one girl. Yes you will like some more than others. But dating is a numbers game and you can control the process but not the outcome with any one girl (Dating is a pipeline just like the sales pipeline in business – since I started tracking in 2016 I’ve had dates with 35% of the girls I got a number from and I’ve had sex with 33% of the girls I’ve had a date with.)
I’d welcome your additional thoughts and tactics in the comments.
Doing those things will help reduce the odds of flakes, but even at best you can only influence things. Flakes will happen.
But there’s a much larger element that you can directly control that will determine how frustrated you actually are when the inevitable flakes happen. Which brings me to:
2. Have an alternative as good as a date with her in the event she flakes
Have important goals in your life beyond girls. If the only thing you’ve got going on in your life besides a boring day job is banging girls on the side, of course you’re going to get upset when the girls fall through.
Instead, set meaningful goals and have outside interests beyond paying the bills and dating. This could be building up a side business, writing a book, DJ-ing at local clubs, or spending time with family and friends. Whatever your goals are, they have to be meaningful to you and inspire passion.
The point is to have a larger life than just girls. You want to be at a place in your life where if a girl flakes on a given night you can say to yourself, “cool, now I can keep working on project xyz instead”.
Personally I view women like good nutrition. If you’re bad with women you will not be happy, just like if you don’t eat well you will look like shit. But being good with women and having them in your life, although extremely rewarding, is not enough on its own to make you happy. Just like having good nutrition and a good physique is not enough by itself. You need a well rounded life to be happy.
Finally, it helps to have regular girls. The three flakes I experienced last week would have been much more painful if I didn’t have dates lined up with my two regulars where I knew I’d be getting plenty of sex. Yes it’s easier said than done, but here’s my post on how to best keep women in your life on an ongoing basis.
One of the most commonly misunderstood areas of game is calibration. In particular, how do you adjust your game based on how the girl sees you at a given moment in time.
Understanding this is key to knowing which game tactics to use as part of your leadership of the seduction dance.
If you haven’t read Mystery Method yet by all means start there. Understanding the basic Attraction -> Comfort -> Seduction model is fundamental to game.
Most guys get the model. But with experience you also learn that in real life the process isn’t linear like the model. You don’t necessary go directly through each of the boxes Mystery lays out in the model one by one. Instead you fractionate between the various steps depending on where you are with the girl.
As Nash rightly points out you need to look at the guy/girl/context. The game you play will always depend on that context.
Mystery developed his method from doing night game in LA in the early 2000’s. That is just one context. A context where the girls have a high opinion of themselves from getting constantly approached. And being in LA the girls are also on the lookout for celebrities and other very high status men at the clubs, so they’re quick to filter and dismiss guys who don’t meet this standard.
Consequently classic mystery method assumes she considers her value higher than yours and so you in response you do things like:
Work the venue first to establish your value via social proof and pre-selection (she needs to see you’re a fun guy who women like being around and who men instinctively follow).
Open indirect (don’t show too much interest).
If needed neg her (remember – a neg is not an insult but rather a neutral comment that can be interpreted positively or negatively, and so the ambiguity makes her wonder about herself).
Do this successfully, and assuming you’re a reasonably attractive guy physically relative to the girl, you’ll have successfully build up her perceived value of you while perhaps knocking down her off her pedestal a bit.
Once you’ve done the work in the attraction phase then you proceed to ground the interaction by bouncing to another spot and building comfort, with the intent to extract later for seduction.
That method works. And they will work in most contexts because in the majority of cases women will perceive their value as higher than the value of most men.
But what if you’re a man who has game, and/or has built your value over time, and/or have a lot of social proof in the situation, and/or maybe you’re traveling to a country where for whatever reason you’re perceived as “shiny” compared to the majority of local men?
What if she sees you has higher value than her from the start?
In this case where a girl perceives your value is higher than hers and you come in with a neg she may take it poorly and feel that you’re insulting her. Spend too much building yourself up with DHV stories and she may see you as way out of her league.
This can often lead to her not wanting to get pump and dumped, or even being more bitchy to you because she thinks you’re only pretending to like her for an easy lay.
In these cases you take a softer approach with more comfort, as the attraction is already well established:
You show genuine interest in her and build connection.
You throw in the occasional tease or push to keep things flirty but these are more gentle.
Your main work is narrowing her perceived gap in your value so that you are still higher than her, but not so high she will get crushed. This means you show more of your K selected side.
Obviously the second case is much less common but it does happen.
I choose two extreme examples to illustrate the point. In reality this is an ongoing calibration you need to do in your interactions with women.
The point is there is an overall sweet spot. Women date up. You have to ensure she perceives your value as higher than hers, while at the same time if she perceives too big a gap she’ll likely withdraw to protect herself.
Be calibrated to where her perception is and you’ll know what elements of your game to bring to the situation.
If you have good game and a high intrinsic value (a goal for all of us) then you will find that after establishing the initial attraction you will spend more time in comfort (well named).
This goes true for ongoing relationships as well. Do behaviors that lower your value in her eyes and over time and she will lose attraction and stop seeing you. But if she sees your value getting higher than she’s comfortable with, you may find her creating drama, giving you comfort tests, or other type of attention seeking behavior to reassure yourself.
In the interest of completely nerding out, I’ve drafted a matrix to further illustrate. Enjoy:
Gaming Her Value
Gaming Your Value
She sees herself as higher value
– Neg – Tease – Disqualify her
– Social proof – pre-selection – DHV stories about how awesome you are – Qualify her
She sees you as higher value
– Compliment her (this is where a lot of guys find that “beta” game works when traveling to non-western countries) – Future projection
– “Romantic” behaviors (this is the quadrant where a lot of girl advice on dating to men comes from, as women want to be dating men higher value than them) – Provide comfort – DHV with stories about how you support family
Again, you want to keep yourself in the “sweet spot” of her perceiving you as higher value than herself, but not not unattainably so.
I’ve been following Krauser’s blog since 2009 or so, after Roissy first linked to it many years ago. I’m sure most of my readers know and respect him. He’s not only one of the best writers in game, but he also helped formalize the London daygame model which is the framework many of us use.
I’ve learned a lot by reading Krauser over the years, and I’ve enjoyed reading all four of his memoir volumes. Krauser highlighting up and coming daygame bloggers is also the reason I was able to connect with Nash at Days of Game, and I’m grateful for that as well.
So naturally I was looking forward to reading the 5th installment of his series, “Girl Junkie” which covers his exploits in 2015.
Having followed his blog all these years Krauser’s memoirs have been especially interesting because the give background and context to many of the stories he’s posted there.
Each volume has delivered on its promise: well told interesting stories that both entertain as well as deliver game tidbits and perspective by example.
With each volume I find myself underling certain ideas and passages to bring into my own game toolkit.
Girl Junkie continues with this streak and doesn’t disappoint.
Having read the other four volumes over the last four years or so, it’s difficult to remember the differences between the books. They’re all consistent Krauser. With Girl Junkie what stands out to me as a long time Krauser reader is he has matured.
There is less preening. Even though Girl Junkie covers the most recent year of the five volumes, where Krauser’s game had continued to improve, in many ways he’s more humble in this book and from my read it seems to have a greater balances of both the frustrations and successes. We all learn more from our failures and this makes for a more human and interesting read.
Krauser also raises some interesting questions on the players journey and whether it’s possible to go too far. In the year of game he covers in this book he is all about fast escalation and the fast pull, often just for the sake of the dopamine rush it provides. He knowingly burns a lot of leads he might have closed otherwise because he can’t be bothered to take more time on. Most guys never get to this point, but it is a pitfall for long term players.
He hints in the end at further changes, and I look forward to seeing if he explores this further.
Some of my favorite quotes of the book include:
“So long as you aren’t naive enough to invest emotions into your dealing with them, sluts are a lot of fun. They can be amongst the most honest and direct girls you ever meet; so long as you’re the casual sex guy and not a potential husband.”
Specific examples of how he visualizes sexual scenes with girls on the street to increase his sexual intent as he goes to approach, improving results.
“Once you understand the concept of ‘frame’, you understand its power. If you can direct your mind with the correct metaphors, that imagery will fill in all the blanks for you and power you through self-doubt.”
“We aren’t stealing anything (from the girl). It’s the opposite, we are building up something special and offering girls an opportunity.”
Details of what caused the fall out between Krauser and Torero, from Krauser’s perspective.
Plenty of good examples of lines and tactics with girls.
Plenty of logistical details for Krakow, Warsaw, Prague, and Kiev for anyone who ever plans to game those cities.
“I believe a man shouldn’t burden others with his problems. Part of being a man is carrying weight on your own shoulders. It can be a tightrope with girls, to share enough of your inner world that they feel connection but to close off those insecurities and frustrations that would undermine her assessment of your confidence.”
“Her first response (or lack thereof) is the strongest single signal of how likely she is to fuck.” (referring to her first text response after the street number close).
“Something funny just occurred to me,” I said mid-way through a script that had actually occurred to me two years ago and had been carefully refined through practice ever since. “isn’t it interesting that nobody even knows we met? It’s like, everything we say and do is one big secret.”
“being a girl, she was fascinated by the sudden conviction with which I delivered the lecture. I saw her eyes sparkle in sexual attraction.”
“Any time a girl chases you let her come. Don’t snatch the reins and start leading.”
As the entertainment industry has become increasingly politically correct, I find there are less and less movies and books that I can actually enjoy. They just don’t match reality.
For a man that understands how the world works Krauser’s memoirs are a refreshing exception. I enjoy the writing as entertainment, and there are plenty of golden nuggets of game that I took notes on as well to refine what I do.
I haven’t been posted much to this blog lately because I’ve been busy pursuing my big goals for the year.
I’ll update here a few memorable vignettes over the past few weeks rather than devote an entire post to each. Some of this I’ve tweeted real time, but here’s what’s been keeping me busy this spring.
I had some setbacks to my health issues in early February which caused me to step back a bit from game and increase my focus on developing and executing a get well plan. It’s a combination of multiple issues (all injury related – I’m a life long contact and endurance sport athlete).
As of late June I do feel I’m back on track. This setback led me to spend March in Europe and also get spine surgery at the end of May (which seems to be helping). I may need one or two more surgeries over the coming months.
The interesting thing is this setback didn’t seem to affect my regulars. I expected to lose some but things continued on the path they were on with my two main regulars even when I wasn’t 100%.
My take away is that strong frame and quality male attention are the bigger priorities for women, and throughout this time I’ve kept an optimistic, positive outlook with them and I believe that was key.
For the last six months of 2018 I did 35 first dates and closed 9 new girls (26%). This was from online game, so if I back out the ones I didn’t want to fuck after I met them the close rate was 64%.
For the first six months of 2019 I only did 19 first dates but I closed 7 of them, plus one long daygame lead from December (37% not including the long lead). The close rate was 70% after backing out the ones I didn’t want to fuck after meeting them.
Also a much higher percentage of they lays here in 2019 were first date lays (32% (6) of my total dates for first half 2019 vs 3% for 2nd half 2018). This is despite me publicly advocating a two date model.
So lower numbers overall due to injury but at the same time my game seems to be getting tighter and more “secret society“.
Here’s a few vignettes from the past six weeks or so:
After my late May surgery I had to take two weeks off of sex, and at the end of that time my two main regulars were traveling out of town. So I went through my old texts and re-opened a daygame lead I met while out daygaming with Nash back in December. I let the lead go cold in March while in Europe, but she was keen when I reopened her in early June and she agreed to meet for a midnight drink after her waitressing shift. After a drink I pulled her to my place nearby and we got down to it very quickly. 30 minutes of fucking and her phone starts blowing up. At this point it’s 2am and I could hear a young man’s voice on the phone – her boyfriend. She calmly told him she on her way home and then we resumed fucking until we finished. I told her it was no big deal, and meant it.
Knowing I’d have a two week dry spell after my surgery I decided to enjoy the weekend prior as if I was going away to prison. I took artsy girl to a party that Thursday night and then enjoyed our weekly long fuck late into the night, spent Friday and Saturday riding a harley around the Marin headlands with Little Me with constant sex breaks at my place as well as sneaking ones in at hidden public places, and then spent Monday night with Santa Cruz girl who was my newest notch at the time. It felt good to do the things I wanted to with the girls I wanted to, completely on my terms.
I cancelled plans an hour before a planned date and nexted Miss Singapore when she tried to take over the reins and veto the date I had planned.
Had a pleasant coffee date with a very cute 19 year old with a sparkly, sexual energy in the middle of the afternoon on a Tuesday. Bounced her to my place for a makeout, but couldn’t get her past that. She responded positively to my feeler text the next day but then ghosted when I pitched a 2nd date (a trend for me this month….see below)
Had three dates with a tall and sexy 27 year old yoga teacher but couldn’t get her back to my airbnb in New York. I’d have written her off after the 2nd date of not coming back, but she had brought me a gift on the 2nd date and I figured it was just a matter of time. Shouldn’t have broken my date rules, so turned out to be three wasted nights.
Had a good first date with a cute 20 year old blonde in NYC who trains as a dancer. Bounced her to my place and had a good make out but wouldn’t go further. Again a positive response to my feeler text the next day but ghosted after I pitched the date.
Met up with a cute 24 year old Korean girl from online. She tells me at the bar she has a boyfriend within a minute of meeting me. I told her that’s fine and game as usual. Bounced her to my place after two drinks. She refused my first attempt at a kiss but it wasn’t a big deal to me. I tried again 10 minutes later, quick make out on the couch and she’s asking me if I have condoms. After sex she tells me how she likes to take the anal virginity of all of her long term boyfriends (3 to date) using her fingers. She begs them until they give in. She doesn’t enjoy it but says she wants to take something from them no one else has (read: major shit test). We share a good laugh over it.
Have a great afternoon of sex with the 18 year old I closed during my January trip to NYC, my first time with her since that trip. She has to rush home at 10pm so her mom doesn’t find out about our little fling.
Have a fun date with a 22 year old New York model. Did drinks at two venues and bounced to my airbnb. She wouldn’t come up (photo shoot and TV audition the next day) but we make out late at night in the street. Again, a positive response to my feeler text the next day but ghosted after I pitched a date. This time I suspect it was “logistics fatigue” (an apt term Red Quest coined tonight over drinks here in NYC) in that she splits time in two different cities and my guess is the days I pitched didn’t work for her schedule. This was a shame because the chemistry was very good.
Had a great birthday dinner with Runner, Highgame NYC, and J here in NYC. Was a great welcome to the city for my current trip here this June.
Took Little Me to the Torture Garden party here in NYC (hat tip to Troy Francis). We were already feeling sexual after fucking before and after dinner, but this party took it up a notch. Finally an attractive BDSM crowd dressed very well with surreal acts being performed in a club like environment. The whole scene was cinematic. We both rolled at the party which kept us up fucking until 5am in the morning. We’ve been intentionally deepening our bond since the opening up we experienced on our acid trip back in February. Our bond was deepening before that but we’ve intentionally accelerated this year and it’s been a very positive experience.
Pulled together a great dinner with Runner, Mr V, Longburnthefire, and J while in NYC. Also had a chance to meet up with Red Quest. Nothing beats getting together with like minded men.
So despite the health set backs it’s been a good spring. My overall take away is that frame really is king.
@beamanforreal summed up in a tweet something I’ve been thinking about for a while:
Most guys are interested in Game 1.0. Simply getting the girl. Overall, very few guys get to the point where they can get laid with attractive new women consistently. And when guys get finally do get laid they tend to want to “lock her down” either out of scarcity or laziness.
Even players are known to get oneitis for a girl who’s “not like the rest” and want to settle down. It’s a natural tendency for most men at some point. It’s happened to me. But do it wrong and you lose the frame and become beta over time.
I’d say I’m solidly in Game 2.0 above, and starting to experiment with Game 3.0. I’ve been able to keep multiple women that I want to keep around on my own terms (Little me is 20 and have been seeing her for 2 years, artsy girl is 21 and have been seeing her for 1 year, the Singaporean is 29 and have been seeing her for 1 year, girls 4 & 6 from NYC last Feb are ready to meet when I return this summer, etc)
Here then are the rules I’ve developed for keeping the girls I want in my life. There’s a lot underneath and these things are an art and take practice:
You have to have strong frame. She comes into your world or you next her. She has to feel this from you.
You can’t give a fuck. You don’t get jealous or controlling. You have to be willing to walk at any time. You should truly feel that it’s her loss if she doesn’t see you or get time with you.
You have to be sleeping with at least 1-2 other women. Women can tell when they’re your only source of pussy and it’s poison to the proper dynamic. This includes non-verbally letting them feel that you’re with other women but doing little things like living girl hair in your place.
You have to maintain some mystery. Don’t overshare all the details of your life, save that for close friends. Keep her guessing. She has to wonder what you’re doing when you’re not around. Let her mind fill in the blanks.
Being with you has to be a positive experience. Time spent with you is the reward. Mix it up and never do the same thing twice or go to the same places, do what you want to do, but keep things constantly fresh and exciting.
Fuck her good and make her cum. Every time. Mix up the sex and keep it exciting. One time may be a marathon fuck around your place (not just the bedroom), another may be a quickie in a public restroom. One time tie her up and spank her before fucking her, another time keep it more emotional and connective. Again keep her guessing but feeling excitement.
Don’t see them more than once a week. Less is often better. Mix it up and don’t see them the same day of each week every damn time (don’t let her think she’s your “Saturday girl” or whatever). Give her the gift of missing you between the amazing times together. Traveling helps with this, although if you let it go more than 2 weeks or so and you don’t have a strong bond you will lose some from your orbit.
Don’t call or text her except to schedule the next date. I usually text and schedule dates with girls early in the week, and then confirm the day of. That’s it. She should be pinging you more than you ping her. If she’s the type to text you a lot take a day or two before replying once in a while. Your attention is a reward, dole it out randomly and sparingly and she will value it much more. There should be times when she doesn’t hear from you for 3-4 days or more.
Never schedule the next date while you’re with her on the last one. End the date and leave her wondering when she’s going to see you again.
Give her compliance tests that cause her to invest. Make her come to you. Make her bring a dessert when she comes over, or wear a particular thing or do her hair a certain way. Make her do whatever it is you want in the bedroom. Give her little homework assignments. Have her clean your apartment. Give her the gift of pleasing you. This is a foundation for the Game 3.0 above when you get girls to crave your pleasure.
Every 1-2 months throw in a pinch of drama. This is advanced game and needs to be calibrated but if things get too comfortable the passion slides. I’ve had this come up naturally with certain events, but at other times I throw in a little as well to keep things spicey. Women crave and need a little drama just like they crave and need rough sex. You’re giving her a taste of what you want.
There has to be times of genuine connection. It’s not worth bothering with the above if you don’t connect with the girl on a deeper level (for me it’s about 10% of girls, and then many of those I’ve dropped over time). This connection comes naturally so it isn’t so much something you do but something you both feel. But you can’t let it become oneitis or drop any of the above rules. Let her feel that this could grow, but then make her work for it and keep the rewards and progression random.
There’s more to it but I’m not going to put it all in a public blog. Welcome your thoughts and comments.
It seems inevitable. With few exceptions when a player’s been in the game long enough, he starts thinking about settling down in some way or at least having kids.
Guys like Paul Janka have settled in to long term relationships to have kids, and even Krauser mentions in his latest video his goal now is to settle down and have a family.
Maybe there’s a male biological clock of some kind. Maybe the dopamine highs of fucking new girls fades, while at the same time players miss the oxytocin hits of pair-bonding. Or maybe there comes the inevitable realization that life is short and it’s time to leave a legacy of some kind.
Regardless the reason I believe it’s worth thinking about and planning for, so when the desire to have kids comes around you have a plan for how you’ll approach it.
The Red Quest has an excellent long post on his thoughts around having kids the red pill way. As a red pill player and father, I find he has a very good perspective and it’s got me thinking about the subject.
It’s clear that modern marriage in the West no longer works. With a marriage contract, you sign away the rights to have your assets if either of you decided to end it, with no upside.
If that’s not enough, my own experience from my 13 year marriage and the many relationships I’ve observed is that if you live together with a woman, her desire to have sex with you instinctively goes away after 2-3 years. In my experience as well this can be deferred if you don’t live with her and spend plenty of time apart.
I’m not yet at the point where I want to have kids. But one of my realizations on a recent acid trip is that I do want them at some point. I’d also say I have a keener understanding of my mortality than most do as well given my chronic pain and injuries that are a daily reminder I’m past my prime physically.
Modern marriage doesn’t work. Living together with a woman also doesn’t work, at least for me. So given all this, what’s the right structure in which to have a kid?
I believe there is no one answer and it depends on the man and what he wants. I don’t have it figured out, but my current thoughts are this:
Don’t get legally married and have a co-parenting agreement in place.
Keep your finances 100% separate, but agree on some sort of monthly budget you provide to her and the kid you have. Legally do your best to have good asset protection practices in place.
Keep two residences. Have one for her and the kid, and a small separate apartment for yourself. Spend several nights a week apart.
Keep the relationship expressly open and have at least one side casual side girl at all times.
Have a signed, enforceable parenting agreement in place that you both sign. She needs to sign up to do the majority of the day to day chores of raising the kid.
Ensure all kids are paternity tested. This means taking a DNA sample at the time of birth and not signing any birth certificate until the kid is proven to be mine.
Choose a woman who has a family that will help in raising the kid.
This may be a tall order. It requires strong frame, good game, and a high degree of financial success.
It’s good to understand that child support is much cheaper in Europe than the US as well.
But if you’re in your late 30’s / early 40’s and have dated a lot of women, you should have the right frame and enough financial success to pull this off.
I’m 44 and yet still not in a hurry. We’ll see what the future holds. But welcome your comments. It’s good to have a plan ready for when the time comes.
Variety and excitement go a long way for not only making life more interesting, but also to help build bonds with the girls you like in your life and keep them hooked on you. It’s those little hits of dopamine you and her get, at random, that builds the bond.
I see this as part of the larger theme of “push/pull” in game. At the relationship level, push/pull shows up as having intense and exciting time together, and then spending time apart (a week or more) and let the “missing you” feelings build. The push/pull “dance” in this way keeps relationships exciting without going stale.
With all that said experimentation continues to be the theme of both my life and my ongoing game. I continue to have new things that interest me to include not only in my life, but to share it with key regular girls of mine and keep the intensity going.
One focus area I’ve been exploring more is BDSM. I see dominance and Variety as two of the key aspects of sex game (emotional connection and being present in the moment are the other two I focus on).
BDSM provides both tools for variety and direct means to be highly dominant in the bedroom in ways few men truly understand. But women love it. When doing simple things like using a bit of rope to tie them up, I’ve heard girls say countless times, “nobody’s ever done that to me before”.
Throwing these basic BDSM elements into your sex game, but never doing it the same way twice, keeps the excitement alive for both of you while giving her experiences and memories she can’t get elsewhere.
As I’ve continued to look for new ways to bring elements of BDSM that I actually enjoy into my game. These week I tried two things. The first was taking artsy girl to a BDSM dungeon. The second was taking a BDSM ropes class. The dungeon was a bust but the ropes have been great. Let me share why.
BDSM clubs differ from the sex clubs like Red Quest writes about in that the focus at these places are BDSM “scenes” at various stations. Sex does happen in some of these scenes, but the majority are about other acts such as flogging, bondage, spanking, needle play, and pretty much anything else you might want to do.
This visit was the first for both artsy girl and me, and we went with the expectation that we would just watch and not participate. I was hoping at least to get ideas or see techniques that I could learn from and bring into the portfolio of things I enjoy doing at home.
Unfortunately as you might expect the majority of the 150 attendees or so were unattractive. What was especially striking was that I was the only man there over 6 feet tall. That’s really rare in a group that size and tells me there is some selection bias involved.
The other disappointment was that the scenes were nothing special. Yes there was a couple having doggy style sex on one of the tables, and there were women in other harnesses submitting to men using hands and vibrators on them. But these acts were not impressive. And the majority of scenes were actually fairly tame things like rope bondage with intricate knots and suspension, or very mild flogging that really equates more to a kind of sensual massage.
My take way from the above is that the real kick for these BDSM dungeons is the exhibitionism.
Nothing wrong with that, but personally if the mood strikes me I’d rather be an exhibitionist at a proper sex club or party with attractive people around, or by sneaking in public sex on a rooftop or restaurant bathroom or the like (I highly recommend men doing this on the sly public sex on dates with your regulars).
It was good to check it out and have the experience, as well as to confirm though that I’m already doing as much as people who’ve been in the BDSM “community” for decades.
The other thing I explored this week on the BDSM theme was a rope tying class. This is where “riggers” (people who enjoy tying up partners) go to share and teach techniques.
I’ve found pretty much all women enjoy being tied up, and for a long time I’ve had a set of spread-eagle ties under my mattress so I can tie girls down to my mattress by their wrists/ankles when the mood strikes me. I’ve actually had girls I’m seeing complain, “you haven’t tied me up in a while” .
But I found going to the class and learning a few basic knots was not only fun but went a long way. Over the weekend as I used them with two of my regular girls they enjoyed the additional skill and art to what I was able to do. I could also see them wonder where the hell I learned that, and keeping that sort of mystery adds fuel to your game. I enjoyed it.
Crash Restraint is a great resource for all things rope bondage, and he even has a free online course step by step where you can learn the basics at your pace at home.
I plan to keep learning more techniques like rope bondage. It keeps things interesting, and adds new dimensions to the already strong variety in my game.
One of my big focus areas these past three years has been harem building and retention. It’s a type of pimp game in that you bring the girl into your orbit, consciously build her attachment to you, and shape her into what you want her to be.
For me this is a sweet spot in the “r/K” or “lover/provider” spectrum. You build a connection with the girls in your rotation, often over months and sometimes years, but you have your freedom to be with other women as you please.
Bringing a girl into your rotation is like training a puppy, you reward and punish behaviors to enforce behavior. You lead her through a range of experiences, most importantly good sex, to get her hooked. It’s also important that your frame is 100% consistent with that of being a lover and you don’t slide into “boyfriend” behaviors or show signs of weakness.
Iceberg slim’s autobiography has good examples, especially the advice he gets from the experienced pimp named Sweet. And women do their own competing form instinctively as the process of “Betacization” As a man you have to be leading with your own relationship game or you will instead fall into the woman’s frame.
“A good pimp is always really alone. You gotta always be a puzzle, a mystery to them. That’s how you hold a whore. Don’t get sour. Tell them something new and confusing every day. You can hold ’em as long as you can do it.”
“A pimp is the loneliest bastard on Earth. He’s gotta know his whores. He can’t let them know him. He’s gotta be God all the way.”
Sweet, from Iceberg Slim’s “Pimp”
These are the best quotes from that book and there’s a lot of game in this. To keep regular girls with who know you’re sleeping with other girls and get zero drama, you’ve got to have a 100% strong frame. You’ve got to be mysterious. You only see them once a week or less. You only text 1-2 times a week. And when you see them you fuck them good.
But to really convert her, you give her a range of emotions. You introduce her to new experiences inside and outside of the bedroom. You use BDSM and dirty talk to spike her emotions and connect with you. Occasionally you introduce a bit of controlled drama to give her the rollercoaster of emotions. You continue to escalate the compliance ladder with her inside and outside the bedroom to ensure she’s fully invested. Conversion is an art.
Converting a girl to you can be dark or light depending on what you want to do, which is why it’s rarely talked about. This same process could be used to pimp out certain girls like in the book or to get yourself a sugarmama, but I’ve focused on it as way to build relationships on my terms. Creating wonderful, concurrent open relationships and life experiences with a variety of girls who’s company I enjoy.
Women get their agency through men, and they look for the right man to make the experiences and life that they want. Myself, I look for girls who want to this experience. To discover themselves and the world, sexually and otherwise. I’m the experienced man of the world who shows them the way.
I’ve enjoyed seeing how girls blossom into what I want them to be all the while they enjoy the experience. This is the same plot-line of romance novels, although with the fantasy in the end that the heroine wins the player over exclusively. Women want you to be the man. To lead. To be “daddy”.
As a man you have to know how to lead them through this nature to create something positive for both of you. This is the “dance” I’ve alluded to in the past.
The girl I call “Little me” ghost wrote an essay about me and told me about it so I could find it (she ghost wrote it via the author who’s actually pictured, Alexandria Brown, who is not Little Me). It’s as good an example of how a woman truly wants to feel – the unsure excitement of whether or not she can win over a high value man:
I like complicated. I like dark. I like mysteries that need unraveling. I like you. I like everything you bring to the table even though all you can give me is a few late nights and never any early mornings. I like not knowing where this is going and if I’m ever going to see you again. I’m addicted to the rush that comes along with getting you every once in a while. It excites me.
Don’t be fooled. This turmoil is what a woman truly wants. Sexually I’ve seen how much women crave being dominated and submitting to a worthy man. It’s no different emotionally. But it has to be with the right balance.
These ongoing non-monogamous mini relationships have been the highlight of my life in game. Far more than crazy game stories on how I managed to close a girl or one night stands. I see this as my sweet spot.
Both the girl and I get great sex, positive experiences, and good memories. I get the freedom and variety I need as a man, but also gives me an outlet for the “affection addiction” that causes so many players to retire from the game.
After this recent three week trip to New York I’m wondering if my desire to focus on this aspect of game came from the fact that SF is such a poor dating market for men. It can take weeks for me to find girls who fit the bill above, and so when I do I want to ensure I manage the (open) relationship well.
It may be tempting to go more “r” selected on the spectrum and just do one night stands when I move to NY. But I don’t see myself going away from keeping 2-3 regular girls in my life (even while I enjoy regularly finding sport fucks on the side).
I’m glad I spent the time in SF that I did. I don’t think it’s likely I’d have consciously focused on this skillset if I’d been in an easy city like NY.
These have been some of the most fulfilling relationships I’ve ever had, even as these women come and go from my life over time.
As is my custom for trips I pipelined several dates via online for my NYC trip. This lets me hit the ground running with a solid pipeline and ensures I don’t get thirsty from a dry spell. I start to feel it after a few days of not getting laid.
As with every other trip I do outside of SF, dating felt on easy mode. I could feel the difference in marketplaces and had to calibrate my approach a bit. There were less flakes and all my lays were on the first date, not the second. I got way more IOI’s as well.
Like anywhere else, a man in Manhattan definitely needs to both have value and have game, but there are many more opportunities and it simply just doesn’t take as much persistence or work.
Here’s how things went for me:
Girl 1 – 23 year old student originally from Oklahoma. My first night in New York and it was a brutal 4 degrees F outside (-16 C). I had her holding my hands most of the date to help warm me up which was good kino. Ran my standard first date model at a local bar, and felt it was on so I bounced her to a 2nd bar nearby, which became my favorite venue after this date. I spent a bit too much time with her in bar 2 and we lost some momentum, and by the end I opted not to bounce her home. Not sure why I passed up a likely lay, but I wasn’t in the mood. I wasn’t dressed well for the cold.
Girl 2 – 28 year old Costa Rican who admitted that she is dying to meet a man with whom she could be submissive with. Somehow submissive girls always recognize me for the dominant I am. Good conversation on a 1 hour first date. I opted to do the two date model with her based on calibration and her age, but ended up cancelling with her during my date with Girl 4 below.
Had my one of my regular SF girls “Little Me” come in for a 36 hour visit. I wanted to set the precedent for short trips as we’ll likely be in different cities in the near future. We fucked all weekend and hit some great restaurants as well as the museum of sex. One downside I found with NYC is the public restrooms don’t lend themselves as well to pulling your girl in for a quickie, which is a favorite pastime I got Little Me hooked on. Sigh…there is no pussy paradise.
Girl 3 – 23 year old student. Saw her the Sunday evening the day Little Me left for home. Girl 3 flaked on me twice during my first week during the period of extreme cold (as did several others), but she begged me for a third chance. I had nothing else booked so I gave it to her. We met at a local bar and this was one of the strongest “it’s on” moments I’ve ever had. Sometimes you’re just a girl’s type. She was 5’9″ and tall girls always love my 6’3 frame so maybe that helped. I had to slow the date down to get to about a 45 minute mark before I bounced her to my apartment since I didn’t want to deal with ASD at my place. She asked to take a shower after we got to my place, and then we fucked right away when she came out in a towel. No ASD, and I opted not to see her again.
Girl 4 – 22 year old restaurant hostess. Grew up on the lower east side. Was planning on running my standard two date model as I had a date 2 planned later that evening to close Girl 2. But once again things felt “on” from the beginning. It started slow but the click was definitely there, so with the attraction there I opted to bounce her to another bar to build comfort, and I canceled my date 2 with girl 2 (younger and hotter always wins). Lots of good kino and we’d have several random moments of intense eye contact, her with her lips open. Again the bounce to my place was easy and no ASD. Ironically I ended up flaking on her on a Friday night date 3 days later when things went well with girl 6 below. But other than her calling me “naughty” she happily came out for another date with me on my last night in New York. She also sent me the text I copied into this post the morning I left. This girl fucked like a pornstar and wanted to do things for me to earn her favorite reward, me calling her a “good girl”. Increasingly I’ve been deeply saying “good girl” as a reward when girls do something that pleases me. I did this in the texting with miss Kuala Lumpur which I believe helped me get the lay, and Miss Singapore even asked out loud once “why does that hit my pleasure center so much?!”. I really do love girls and how they are.
Girl 5- 25 year old freelancer from Connecticut. She was just my type physically, and had a sweetness to her that I liked. My read on her was that she was more “K” selected (close to her family, shares apartment with her sister, no tatoos, etc), so I opted for a 2 date model and cut the first date short after an hour. We were both free the next date so I opted to do a dinner date at a restaurant. In the end she wouldn’t bounce to my place for “one last drink” so I wrote her off. I was disappointed to waste an evening on her, but I’d have taken the night off otherwise anyway.
Girl 6 – just turned 18 year old art student from Brooklyn. A petite 5’1″ girl with a nice round booty, this girl was by far my favorite of the trip. We had a Friday afternoon coffee date since she was so far underage. We had clicked well in texting, this girl has one of the best senses of humor of any one I’ve met. Our banter was great but there was a strong man/woman vibe. After an hour at the cafe I was going to end the date and head out for an evening planned with girl 4, but girl 6 asked me, “what are we doing next?” so I rolled with it and bounced her to what was now my favorite bar in the east village, one block from my place. The staff knew me well by this time so didn’t bother to card, and we continued our vibe over a nice drink (I had a virgin drink, and the art student indulged in a nice cocktail). After another hour with some good kino and escalation I suggested she try the nice Bordeaux I had at my place and she agreed. I cancelled my date with Girl 4 right before we planned to begin so I could keep momentum with Girl 6 (younger and hotter always wins). Being younger I could see that Girl 6 she was a bit nervous knowing what that meant. I gave her more time to roam around my apartment that I normally do, although I teased her comparing her to a nervous little kitten. It was rather fun watching her settle the nerves and make her inner decision of whether or not to fuck me, I watched with a bit of a grin from the couch confident in the inevitable as I let her settle in. She then sat across from me on the coffee table rather than next to me on the couch, a clear sign that she needed to build comfort. One of the advantages to being older is that I’m never in a hurry and I just relaxed and let her do what she needed, I think she felt this and it relaxed her. It’s no big deal to me if I don’t get laid on any given night because I always have a rotation, and girls can feel this. The art student started asking me questions like, “do you live here or in SF?”, “do you only date young girls?” etc and of course I answered them all truthfully but tactfully. It’s funny but girls rarely ask me questions on dates, instead I lead the conversation but asking questions and letting them talk about themselves. The questions here was much like the text questions I was getting from girls in Bangkok prior to first dates, I smiled at the parallel. When it finally felt right I pulled her across from the table into my lap as I sit on the couch and started kissing her. Within about 30 seconds she panted “do you want to fuck me?” and I answered by simply picking her up and carrying her to the bed all the while I was kissing her. We fucked twice that night and twice the next day. Lots of vibing and fun conversation in between and not to much sleep. We did it again two days later for a 2nd date. She’s one I’ll keep in touch with for my return to NY. She reminds me of the Stanford girl in dated in 2017, but this one was sweeter.
Girl 7 – 20 year old sorority girl from Rutgers. We had good banter via texting and had also done a short skype call (which I cut short as always). Date started well but it became apparent this girl was a bit insecure and liked to banter / accuse a bit too much. When I moved things on to comfort she would keep moving things back to the banter phase, but in a way that didn’t feel sexual. I ended the date after an hour and wrote her off.
I didn’t keep track but my memory is that I had three girls flake on me, all in the first week of extreme cold. I flaked on two girls an hour before the date (girls 2 & 4 above), and I cancelled on maybe 3 or 4 others at various points when I was too tired to pursue. This came from me having to calibrate to the NYC market, I’m used to girls flaking more in other cities so I was double booking evenings. I also didn’t expect every lay to be a date 1 lay but girls in NYC don’t seem to hesitate once they know they want you.
All of the above was from online, which is as good in NYC as anywhere I’ve been. I did do a handful of daygame sets with Runner. I number closed a cute blonde in SoHo but the number flaked (I approached off her huge IOI but then she was in a hurry after I stacked and so the interaction was way too short). Did a second daygame session at the end of my trip with Runner in Penn station at night due to the cold, but the options were slim and frankly I was all fucked out from the girls above.
Your value. In game you are the product. The more you build your value (confidence, charm, charisma, physique, fashion, influence and social connections, sexual abilities, etc) the more women will want you. If you’re not attractive the best game in the world will do you no good
Your actual game. This is sales of you as the product. If you have high value but don’t approach women you won’t get laid. They need to learn about you in an attractive way, and then you need to lead them from interest to close. You need a systemic way of doing this (nightgame, daygame, online, social circle) and manage this whole sales funnel like a process. To Red Quest’s point this is the part most men focus on. In part I think a lot of lazy guys are looking for “game hacks” so they can avoid the hard work of building value which takes years.
Your dating market. Are there a lot of attractive younger women relative to men where you live? I see now that I’ve made things much harder for myself by living most of my life in the worst counties in the country for men to date. It likely contributed to me getting married as young as I did. But on the plus side I doubt I’d have developed my game skills as much as I have if SF wasn’t such a tough market for men.
I feel I’ve maximized my value as much as I can. At 44 my fight is to preserve what I’ve built. I’ve got room to improve my game but I’d say I’m solid at this point.
It’s not that I’m being disingenuous. Rather it was writing the post on my first date model that made me examine what I do on a date and it made me spell out my escalation process. Again I have to thank the gentlemen who encouraged me to start this blog.
Since my first date model post I’ve been ensuring that I hit each question on every first date (in a calibrated way, fractionated with small talk and appropriate kino).
The lesson here is that the two date model is a good structure, but calibration trumps structure every time. If you feel that it’s on by all means pull the trigger.
Again I think writing that post helped me be more mindful and systematic regarding what I’ve been doing on first dates, and then with a bit of luck, calibration, and leadership things have gone my way.
I’ve done 7 first dates with new girls in January so far (with 4 more scheduled here in NYC). This is in addition to seeing one of my regulars in Bangkok in early January and two of my regulars in SF mid-month. Here’s the break down of January’s 7 dates so far:
2. (lost) A 23 year old nursing student in SF, solid date but wouldn’t bounce home with me. Trailed off in the after date texting.
3. (closed) A 24 year old nursing student in SF who I bounced home after she was very clearly “on” and had both her legs in my lap.
4. (dropped) A 23 year old New York girl who came out on the coldest day of the year. We had two drinks and it felt like I could bounce her home, but I opted not to since I was cold and not in the mood.
5. (dropped) A 28 year old Costa Rican girl here in NYC. Positive date, I had a date 2 lined up but it was stacked after date 7 below so I cancelled on her when I opted to take date 7 back to my place.
6. (closed) A 23 year old New York girl who flaked on me twice, but then begged me to meet up, and once she showed up turned out to be one of the biggest “yes” girls I’ve ever dated. It was completely on within 5 minutes of meeting, but I waited until she finished her drink before bouncing her home to prevent LMR. There was none. It just shows that sometimes girls can be random.
7. (closed) A 22 year old native New Yorker who was also a strong click from the beginning. Massive eye contact. I opted to bounce her to two different bars before taking her home (and cancelled on the Costa Rican girl as I did it). Several rounds of wild sex and a very fun date overall.
I had the privilege of being one of the men that the Red Quest asked to provide input on the manuscript for his book, “Sex Clubs, Non-Monogamy, and Game“. He’s finished the book in part with my input and is now giving the book away for free (downloadable at the link).
It’s a unique book based on his years of experience in the sex club / swinger scene in his city. In the first half of the book he covers why a man would want to include sex clubs as part of his game, and in the second half of the book he shares lots of specific examples from his own dating life.
Personally I haven’t had direct experience with sex clubs. I’ve had FFM threesomes, and I once took a 22 year old I was dating to a sex club here in San Francisco. But we left after 10 minutes, the club was slow and frankly we didn’t like the looks of anyone else there. So I was curious to read Red Quest’s take on this scene and how to integrate it into non-monogamous relationship management.
As I’ve written about here and here, it’s your role as a man to lead your woman. Lead her experience and take her to places she’s never been before. Doing this right I’ve been able to keep the attractive women I want in my life, without having to promise monogamy. Women want to be lead by an exciting lover as a means for them to experience the world. And I can see from “Sex Clubs, Non-Monogamy, and Game” that sex clubs could be part of your larger game in doing this leading…if you had the skills and inclination.
After reading this book, here are the positives I see for bringing your girls to sex clubs:
you frame yourself as top tier lover because you’ve opened her to experiences she’s only fantasized about but would never make happen on her own
her attraction for you can increase as she watches you fuck other girls (preselection at its most primal)
you can leverage her for variety both by swapping her with other couples and also having her recruit other girls for you
the sex club scene in your city becomes a long term “ecosystem” / social circle you can leverage for constantly finding new partners – if you have the social savvy and sex skills to be a top-tier guy in the sex club scene in your city
Here are the downsides I see:
I doubt most guys can pull this off – this is advanced level game and your looks, game, and sex skills need to be on point. You need a strong frame and ability to lead
other guys will try and poach your girl
you have to manage not just your relationship with the girl you bring but your relationship with the other couples you play with
most guys won’t enjoy watching “their” girl fuck other guys…even if it means they get to fuck other girls at the same time
From my very limited experience in San Francisco I’m not convinced there are many attractive women in the sex club scene (I’m picky and prefer petite college aged girls)
I think this is a worthwhile read to any one who’s had some curiosity about the sex club world. There’s value here in reading about Red Quest’s advanced level game in action, even if all you’re looking to do is merge girls you’re already dating into a FFM threesome with you.
A lot of men have been talking about end game (RedQuest | Roy Walker | Troy Francis | Krauser / Jimmy Jambone among others). (addition 1/27: Tom Torero weighs in that there is no end game). The question seems to be, “is being a player all there is?” and “what comes after being a player?”. It seems for many that after 5-10 years in the game the rush of getting yet another notch doesn’t do it any more.
I suspect what this ultimately comes down to is that men want pair-bonding. I’m 44 years old and have personally experienced the full range of types of relationships with women, from same day sport fucks to fuck buddies to harems to girlfriends to my marriage (ended 5 years ago).
From this experience I truly believe that sexual pair-bonding with a woman can’t last more than 3-5 years tops, before your relationship degrades into routine without any real spark. This is how nature intended it: pair up long enough to produce offspring and get them into childhood, then rotate to a new partner to diversify your genes. We can’t get around our DNA.
So I’m at peace with being a player forever. As a man you have to be able to bring new women into your life on an ongoing basis, and pair-bond with them as you see fit.
What fits best for me (every man is different) is having 2-4 regular girls at a time in my life, where I see each once a week. In effect this is a portfolio of girls with whom I pair-bond in different ways for as long as the honeymoon period lasts (“sweet spot” might be a better term), in some cases for years and still going.
What I like about this in effect is I’m always in the honeymoon phase, even as girls eventually come and go. It’s on you as the man to manage these relationships properly and keep them fresh.
With hedonic adaptation our brains gets used to routine. I attribute a portion of my satisfaction with this lifestyle to the fact that I never let these mini relationships get routine. I vary up where we go, what we do, how we fuck every single time. How we lead the dance makes a difference in getting more satisfaction and longevity out of these relationships while they last.
None of these relationships will last “forever” because nothing in life lasts forever. There is no end to this process, just like there is no end to exercise and good nutrition. It’s a part of a healthy life and supports you in your higher mission, whatever that is for you.
This is why we have to constantly game and constantly build value as men. We are not meant to rest in life. We’re meant to strive till we die.
Runner and I had a great conversation where we expanded on the concept of equilibrium. There is no end game, in that there is no rest for a man. You have to be on your game every single day, even in a serious relationship with a woman.
However, you can reach a state of balance, equilibrium, if you keep your game tight on a regular basis. I laid some of those behaviors out in my Rules of Retention post. No relationship lasts forever, but as a man you lead and you have the potential to keep things with a woman in a “sweet spot” for an indefinite amount of time, if you choose and if you lead properly.
With that set up how could I refuse? For better or worse, here’s my dating model that I prefer. I know men like Nash and Pancake Mouse have different styles. As the strong silent type, this is what works for me. I went on dates with 157 different girls in 2017+2018 and you can see my results here (I closed 61% of these girls that I chose to pursue).
I primarily date from online game. I find it more efficient here in San Francisco than I find daygame, and it allows me to number farm during the day while I’m working and then reserve evenings for the actual dates. This may be an extension of good looking guy game, but I have really good pictures so I find in SF the quality is about the same between online and daygame as well.
I default to a two date model. The first date is usually an hour or so at a nice bar convenient to my place. The second date is dinner at my place (or if she rejects this another drink at another bar nearby).
Since usually the first date is the first time I’m seeing the girl in person, it helps me screen if I really want to go any further with her (of the 157 girls I met up with in 2017+2018 I choose not to pursue 85 of them). I’ll end the date quickly if I’m not in to her with no remorse.
I find the more attracted I am to a girl the more she feels this and reflects it back to me. Girls can feel when you’re not that in to them but trying to fuck them because she just happens to be there.
There are plenty of times when I feel that “it’s on” and so opt to pull the trigger to bounce her to my place on the first date. I don’t plan on it, but it happened for 10% of the girls I opted to pursue, including the Malaysian girl last week.
The two date model has the advantage of reducing the ASD you’ll get verses trying to push for the lay on the first date. I find with my approach although it usually takes two dates to seal the deal, I end up spending less face time with her than it would take to bounce to multiple date venues and also bust through ASD like you often have to in order to get the first date lay.
Mystery said it takes about 7 hours of face time to close a girl, but with a two date model I find it’s often more like 2-3 hours if you do it right. This is because the vacuum between the two dates does some of the work for you. What can I say I’m all about efficiency.
I could write pages on how to do a first date, but a few key points come to mind:
Make her hug you when you meet, start talking to her like you already know her.
Ignore her beauty. I’ve always been good at this naturally, go on a lot of dates so you don’t give a fuck about closing any one particular girl. She needs to feel this.
She will mirror your frame. If you’re attracted it should raise your vibe and she will feel it and it will raise her attraction.
Tease her within the first 20 seconds of meeting – I like to make a playful observation about what she’s wearing.
She may be a bit challenging in the beginning. Usually not shit tests but challenging. Shrug it off and tease / challenge her as appropriate, with your confident masculine vibe. She’ll start to fall under your frame and the rest is downhill from there.
Be sure to sit side by side at a bar or couch so you can kino.
Lead the conversation but ensure she does 70-80% of the talking. Do this by mostly asking questions.
Lean back and be relaxed. Your body language should be confident. The most important thing is your eyes. Make strong eye contact, but at times also look away. You can seduce a woman who doesn’t speak your language purely with body language and eye contact, as I did in Thailand.
For the first 10 minutes do mostly get to know you chit-chat with the occasional tease. This part may need to be higher energy on your part to get things going. You should already start to kino her by touching her hand, or evening interrupting what she says to touch and make a comment about her jewelry. Touch her elbow, knee, etc to emphasize points.
About 10 minutes in start to work in verbal escalations. Fractionate between escalations and normal get to know you chit chat about her family and aspirations. Calibrate how far you push this based on her responses and body langauge. These are questions like:
What’s your guilty pleasure?
What kind of guys do you like?
When was your last significant relationship? What was the sex like?
How do you prefer to cum?
(towards the end) what do you like about me?
As appropriate throw in the occasional (20% of talking) DHV story
Continue to escalate the kino and intensity of eye contact.
Make comments to show you are “woke” and get the “secret society”. My go to comment is how “it’s a double standard that women get judged and it’s wrong. We’re all sexual beings, and it’s a shame society makes women hide it.” This goes a long way to letting them get comfortable with you as the “lover” instead of a beta “provider”.
Be the one to end the conversation around the hour mark. You’re a man in demand and have to go.
She should come away from this first date feeling good from the talking, the kino, and the fractionation of conversation topics. But also wondering if she’s going to see you again because you ended it.
If you do want to see her again text her the next day and pitch date 2 at your place. If you do date 1 right she should happily agree to it, and sex is highly likely. Because you built this bubble with her and then vacuumed for 24 hours or so after before texting her again, she feels your value and is more eager to close the deal. With this two date model you can lose girls if it takes too long between date 1 and date 2, but you also don’t get much ASD on the date 2’s at your place.
I never go for a kiss on the first date because I have found it raises ASD for date 2. The little hamster in her girl brain can justify coming over to your place by saying, “we haven’t even kissed yet, so we’ll probably just do that”. If you’ve kissed her on date 1, she will understand that you will want more than that on date 2, which raises her ASD and makes it less likely she’ll come over. Kissing her on a date when you’re not going to pull the trigger to go all the way also kills some of your mystery and raises ASD and buyer’s remorse.
That’s what I do in a nutshell. If you want more resources on how to do this I highly recommend either “Get to Sex Fast” or Krauser’s “Daygame Mastery“.
My last day in Kuala Lumpur and I scheduled my first date for my 2 day stay here in the afternoon. The texting was good after I demonstrated my frame to her, and she agreed to meet me at my hotel for a drink at 4pm in the afternoon. Knowing this was my last day in town I had to go for the first date lay, but I had a feel that this 21 year old was promising from the texting. I had teased her my saying she has to come with her biggest smile, and she texted me the next day to show me a screenshot of how she put that in her reminders on her phone (“come with a big smile”). Game on.
We met in the lobby and I led her to the bar. She ordered a gin and tonic while I had my normal sparkling water since I prefer not to drink alcohol. More good signs. She was nervous in a good way and I fractionated right away between verbal escalations (“what type of guys do you like?”, “what’s the craziest thing you’ve ever done?”, and “what do you like about me?”) and basic get to know you talk. All the while I also escalated the kino, touching the ring on her hand, touching her earlobe as I noticed out loud she had no earring, and holding her hand to compare how big mine is relative to hers.
She gave me a great opening to set the secret society tone in saying how everyone thought she was innocent when she’s not, and I used the opportunity to talk about how I don’t like the double standard that gets applied to women, where they have to pretend to be good girls and not sexual beings, and that no one should be judged for having sex as it’s a health part of life and we are all sexual people. I truly believe this, and I find this is a key message to convey on every first date and goes a long way in making a girl comfortable in fucking you if the attraction is also there.
After about 45 minutes as she finished most of her drink, I suggested that before she heads out that she try some of the nice dark chocolate I have in my room. “OK” she chirped happily, and up we went. I asked her to take off her shoes and left her alone a few minutes as I used the restroom, and found her standing by the window admiring the city view when I came out. Standing beside her we talked about the view and how short she is to me (150cm to my 191cm), so she stood on the low window still so we were standing face to face, and we started to kiss. It was so on the whole time I slowed things down just a tad to ensure she had enough foreplay and to also pre-empt any ASD that might pop up. None ever did. With ten minutes of making out she was on her knees sucking my dick and then onto the bed to fuck like animals.
A very submissive girl. They seem to know how to find me. She later said she could just tell I was dominant from the start. I used my belt to tie her up as I did her doggy, making her say how she’s my little slut as I fucked her hard (I made her pussy bleed onto the sheets and she wasn’t on her period). I came looking straight in her eyes. It was a great first new girl of the year and a good welcome to Malaysia. We cuddled a bit afterwards and she kept foundling my cock, and in about 20 minutes we went again for round 2. She was too sore to fuck again but gladly volunteered to suck me off and put a lot of heart in to it. Submissive girls love to please.
We didn’t have any chocolate until afterwards when I walked her down to her car with her wearing her cute little sun dress that she came in. It was a sweet ending to a very nice afternoon. The entire date end to end was about two and a half hours. She was off to dinner with family and drinks with friends that night. We’ll likely never see each other again.
This is the secret society and how most girls like to be at least for one phase of their young adult lives. Consequence free sex with a man who won’t judge them and who they can tell can deliver the goods. Be that man.
I’m relaxing here in my Bangkok apartment after getting three new notches in the last week. I’ve got more leads for this trip but I’m not pursuing them hard. I’ve opted to have miss Singapore, one of my regulars, come to town for my last few days to ring in the new year with me.
In many ways this is a good summary of my 2018 with women. At 44 years old I’m having as much sex as I’ve ever had in my life, but compared to 2016 and 2017 it’s been more focused on a handful of regulars that I like, and less on new girls.
2017 was a banner year for me in game when my process finally came together. I started out 2017 losing one of my favorite girls of all time because I accidentally scheduled a date with her best friend, and so I had to start the year building a rotation from scratch and also frankly also deal with the suck of losing a girl that I had such a strong connection with.
By the end of the year I’ve developed a template for what I look for: young, cute, a bit of an outsider, and wanting to explore the world. In this template I’m the man this lucky girls gets to explore the big world with. It’s the right dynamic for me, and I’ve gotten good at finding the right sort of girls and leading them down this path.
Here are my stats and highlights from 2017:
79 first dates (mostly from online dating)
41 (52%) of these I chose not to pursue
12 (15%) I pursued but couldn’t close
26 (33%) I closed on the 1st date (4), 2nd date (20) or 3rd date (2)
Average age of a new girl was 23 (I turned 43 in mid 2017)
In my average month I slept with 5 different girls
I also had 3 carryover girls from 2016
I had sex 188 times in total, 63% was with four girls
dating a former miss Ukraine I met from nightgame (didn’t close her) while out partying with CMQ and Goldmund
the 19 year old Singaporean track runner
the 19 year old Stanford student
starting things off with “Little me” (18 when we met) who I’m still seeing regularly and is my current favorite
Trips to Miami, Tokyo, NYC, Singapore, and Vietnam
With that background here are my stats and highlights form 2018:
78 first dates (again mostly online dating)
44 (56%) of these I chose not to pursue
15 (19%) I pursued but couldn’t close
18 (24%) I closed on the 1st date (3), 2nd date (13), or 3rd date (2)
1 (1% – Miss Puffy Jacket) are still in play as of this writing
Average age of a new girl was 22 (I turned 44 in mid 2018)
In my average month I slept with 4 different girls
I also had 4 carryover girls from 2017
I had sex 192 times in total, 66% was with three girls
Closing the Singaporean girl and Miss Artsy within 3 days of each other. These are two of my top 10 favorite all time and I continue to see them regularly
3 new girls in 3 days during NYC trip, 3 new girls in 5 days during Bangkok trip
Trips to NYC, Seattle, Portland, San Diego, Las Vegas, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Singapore, Cambodia, Bangkok, and Malaysia
So maybe I’ve hit a plateau in 2018, or maybe having 3 of my 10 all time favorites in my regular rotation at once slowed me down in terms of pursuing new girls. I think I’ve gotten pickier, and have chosen not to pursue marginal girls that I would have in the past just to get the notch. Instead I had my regular girls and new girls came from trips or on occasion when I found one to my liking or felt like some variety.
In addition for the Hong Kong, Singapore, and now for part of the Bangkok trip I’ve chosen to see miss Singapore instead of pursue new girls the whole time (I still closed a few girls on these trips). I had other work trips to several other cities where I didn’t game or fuck that entire trip, and I think that slowed down the notch rate as well.
Could I get better results from daygame? Maybe in another city, but I find it hugely time consuming. I’ve done 25 approaches from it this year and have one open lead back home from it that I may still close.
What I am most happy about is the stability I have with my three regulars. Close connections with each in their own unique way, and all three know the deal and that I see other girls. They are 20, 21, and 29 respectively. All have known my age from the start and all also know that I see other girls. I’ve had no drama with any of them, which again tells me my frame is strong and I’ve internalized the skills of converting girls to me and keeping them happy in my rotation.
2019 for me will be about deciding if I want to stay in San Francisco or move to another city, and also pursue other goals besides new women.
Relationships are like salsa dancing. As the man you have to lead, but it’s a partnership between the both of you. It also take much longer for a man to learn salsa than a woman, just like relationships. But we have no choice but to do it.
The first time I went salsa dancing was on a 2nd date with a very cute Czech girl. We got a little drunk, and she said she wanted to salsa (she was good). In my inexperience I said “sure”. When in doubt I say “yes”, but in retrospect I should have avoided putting myself into a situation where I was a beginning in front of a girl I was interested in.
At the club I didn’t have any inhibitions and did my best to lead by watching the other couples. If you’ve never danced salsa, the man leads and decides every twirl and step. He completely controls the woman’s experiences. She gets to twirl around and he looks like h’s just doing a few steps, but the realty is she follows his movements and interpretation of the music completely. The entire quality of her experience is on him. It takes years for a man to get good, in part because even an experienced woman can’t teach him. Whereas a woman can learn in a few sessions because she simply needs to respond to her partner.
So back to my salsa date, I did a fair job faking it for a man who had never even seen salsa dancing before. but eventually she craved the real thing and I let her dance with a short old guy in his 60’s. What a difference it was, and she loved it. Not surprisingly, I never did sleep with her. But I saw first hand how dating needs to be. We as men must lead and take the time to learn how to lead right. We can only learn through experience with some help from other men. It’s an art just like dancing. Maybe over time I’ll share how I’ve learned to do it right.
Andrew Tate gets it right by hard-nexting his girl after she shit-talked him and his brother:
As a man you need to define clear boundaries with your women and you need to enforce them. Consistently. She will test them. She needs to feel that you will enforce them. It makes her feel safe and it’s an opportunity for her to “rub up against your internal strength” like a cat might rub up against your leg.
Withdrawing attention for a few moments, days, or permanently – depending on the infraction – is the best tool we as men have to enforce our boundaries and demonstrate our leadership to our women. It’s the prime example of leading in the daughter / daddy dynamic.
I see men fall down on this all the time. You have to enforce boundaries. And you have to be willing to leave your women at any time if she crosses the line.
Keep your game sharp so you always have options, and keep your frame sharp so you always enforce your boundaries.