A lot of men have been talking about end game (RedQuest | Roy Walker | Troy Francis | Krauser / Jimmy Jambone among others). (addition 1/27: Tom Torero weighs in that there is no end game). The question seems to be, “is being a player all there is?” and “what comes after being a player?”. It seems for many that after 5-10 years in the game the rush of getting yet another notch doesn’t do it any more.
I suspect what this ultimately comes down to is that men want pair-bonding. I’m 44 years old and have personally experienced the full range of types of relationships with women, from same day sport fucks to fuck buddies to harems to girlfriends to my marriage (ended 5 years ago).
From this experience I truly believe that sexual pair-bonding with a woman can’t last more than 3-5 years tops, before your relationship degrades into routine without any real spark. This is how nature intended it: pair up long enough to produce offspring and get them into childhood, then rotate to a new partner to diversify your genes. We can’t get around our DNA.
So I’m at peace with being a player forever. As a man you have to be able to bring new women into your life on an ongoing basis, and pair-bond with them as you see fit.
What fits best for me (every man is different) is having 2-4 regular girls at a time in my life, where I see each once a week. In effect this is a portfolio of girls with whom I pair-bond in different ways for as long as the honeymoon period lasts (“sweet spot” might be a better term), in some cases for years and still going.
What I like about this in effect is I’m always in the honeymoon phase, even as girls eventually come and go. It’s on you as the man to manage these relationships properly and keep them fresh.
With hedonic adaptation our brains gets used to routine. I attribute a portion of my satisfaction with this lifestyle to the fact that I never let these mini relationships get routine. I vary up where we go, what we do, how we fuck every single time. How we lead the dance makes a difference in getting more satisfaction and longevity out of these relationships while they last.
None of these relationships will last “forever” because nothing in life lasts forever. There is no end to this process, just like there is no end to exercise and good nutrition. It’s a part of a healthy life and supports you in your higher mission, whatever that is for you.
This is why we have to constantly game and constantly build value as men. We are not meant to rest in life. We’re meant to strive till we die.
Honestly I wouldn’t have it any other way. Happiness is making progress towards meaningful goals. Achieving those goals is anti-climatic.
There is no end game.
Nash at Days of Game tweeted this at me the other day:
BTW…I have been coaching a friend. And I was telling him your theories on MAKING OUT WITH THE GIRL on the FIRST DATE.
You/I have different strategies…so i told him both of ours, let him choose. I bet other guys would like to hear your POV. Nash @ Days of Game
With that set up how could I refuse? For better or worse, here’s my dating model that I prefer. I know men like Nash and Pancake Mouse have different styles. As the strong silent type, this is what works for me. I went on dates with 157 different girls in 2017+2018 and you can see my results here (I closed 61% of these girls that I chose to pursue).
I primarily date from online game. I find it more efficient here in San Francisco than I find daygame, and it allows me to number farm during the day while I’m working and then reserve evenings for the actual dates. This may be an extension of good looking guy game, but I have really good pictures so I find in SF the quality is about the same between online and daygame as well.
I default to a two date model. The first date is usually an hour or so at a nice bar convenient to my place. The second date is dinner at my place (or if she rejects this another drink at another bar nearby).
Since usually the first date is the first time I’m seeing the girl in person, it helps me screen if I really want to go any further with her (of the 157 girls I met up with in 2017+2018 I choose not to pursue 85 of them). I’ll end the date quickly if I’m not in to her with no remorse.
I find the more attracted I am to a girl the more she feels this and reflects it back to me. Girls can feel when you’re not that in to them but trying to fuck them because she just happens to be there.
There are plenty of times when I feel that “it’s on” and so opt to pull the trigger to bounce her to my place on the first date. I don’t plan on it, but it happened for 10% of the girls I opted to pursue, including the Malaysian girl last week.
The two date model has the advantage of reducing the ASD you’ll get verses trying to push for the lay on the first date. I find with my approach although it usually takes two dates to seal the deal, I end up spending less face time with her than it would take to bounce to multiple date venues and also bust through ASD like you often have to in order to get the first date lay.
Mystery said it takes about 7 hours of face time to close a girl, but with a two date model I find it’s often more like 2-3 hours if you do it right. This is because the vacuum between the two dates does some of the work for you. What can I say I’m all about efficiency.
I could write pages on how to do a first date, but a few key points come to mind:
- Make her hug you when you meet, start talking to her like you already know her.
- Ignore her beauty. I’ve always been good at this naturally, go on a lot of dates so you don’t give a fuck about closing any one particular girl. She needs to feel this.
- She will mirror your frame. If you’re attracted it should raise your vibe and she will feel it and it will raise her attraction.
- Tease her within the first 20 seconds of meeting – I like to make a playful observation about what she’s wearing.
- She may be a bit challenging in the beginning. Usually not shit tests but challenging. Shrug it off and tease / challenge her as appropriate, with your confident masculine vibe. She’ll start to fall under your frame and the rest is downhill from there.
- Be sure to sit side by side at a bar or couch so you can kino.
- Lead the conversation but ensure she does 70-80% of the talking. Do this by mostly asking questions.
- Lean back and be relaxed. Your body language should be confident. The most important thing is your eyes. Make strong eye contact, but at times also look away. You can seduce a woman who doesn’t speak your language purely with body language and eye contact, as I did in Thailand.
- For the first 10 minutes do mostly get to know you chit-chat with the occasional tease. This part may need to be higher energy on your part to get things going. You should already start to kino her by touching her hand, or evening interrupting what she says to touch and make a comment about her jewelry. Touch her elbow, knee, etc to emphasize points.
- About 10 minutes in start to work in verbal escalations. Fractionate between escalations and normal get to know you chit chat about her family and aspirations. Calibrate how far you push this based on her responses and body langauge. These are questions like:
- What’s your guilty pleasure?
- What kind of guys do you like?
- When was your last significant relationship? What was the sex like?
- How do you prefer to cum?
- (towards the end) what do you like about me?
- As appropriate throw in the occasional (20% of talking) DHV story
- Continue to escalate the kino and intensity of eye contact.
- Make comments to show you are “woke” and get the “secret society”. My go to comment is how “it’s a double standard that women get judged and it’s wrong. We’re all sexual beings, and it’s a shame society makes women hide it.” This goes a long way to letting them get comfortable with you as the “lover” instead of a beta “provider”.
- Be the one to end the conversation around the hour mark. You’re a man in demand and have to go.
She should come away from this first date feeling good from the talking, the kino, and the fractionation of conversation topics. But also wondering if she’s going to see you again because you ended it.
If you do want to see her again text her the next day and pitch date 2 at your place. If you do date 1 right she should happily agree to it, and sex is highly likely. Because you built this bubble with her and then vacuumed for 24 hours or so after before texting her again, she feels your value and is more eager to close the deal. With this two date model you can lose girls if it takes too long between date 1 and date 2, but you also don’t get much ASD on the date 2’s at your place.
I never go for a kiss on the first date because I have found it raises ASD for date 2. The little hamster in her girl brain can justify coming over to your place by saying, “we haven’t even kissed yet, so we’ll probably just do that”. If you’ve kissed her on date 1, she will understand that you will want more than that on date 2, which raises her ASD and makes it less likely she’ll come over. Kissing her on a date when you’re not going to pull the trigger to go all the way also kills some of your mystery and raises ASD and buyer’s remorse.
That’s what I do in a nutshell. Welcome any and all comments you may have below.
It should go without saying, but this only a model and should be subject to calibration. If you sense it’s “on” after doing the above, bounce her home or isolate her and escalate to fuck her.
But I’d only recommend doing this if you’re reasonably sure it’s on, if you escalate for sex on the first date and don’t close, there’s a high chance she’ll ghost afterwards.
A few months back I collaborated on a post with Nash at Days of Game. It was a nice case study of my text game in action, with a lot of good commentary from Nash.
It was the first time someone took an interest in my game and what I do, and since that post Nash and I have daygamed several times together and have gotten to know each other well.
Check out Nash’s blog here and follow him on twitter as well. He’s definitely worth the time.
My last day in Kuala Lumpur and I scheduled my first date for my 2 day stay here in the afternoon. The texting was good after I demonstrated my frame to her, and she agreed to meet me at my hotel for a drink at 4pm in the afternoon. Knowing this was my last day in town I had to go for the first date lay, but I had a feel that this 21 year old was promising from the texting. I had teased her my saying she has to come with her biggest smile, and she texted me the next day to show me a screenshot of how she put that in her reminders on her phone (“come with a big smile”). Game on.
We met in the lobby and I led her to the bar. She ordered a gin and tonic while I had my normal sparkling water since I prefer not to drink alcohol. More good signs. She was nervous in a good way and I fractionated right away between verbal escalations (“what type of guys do you like?”, “what’s the craziest thing you’ve ever done?”, and “what do you like about me?”) and basic get to know you talk. All the while I also escalated the kino, touching the ring on her hand, touching her earlobe as I noticed out loud she had no earring, and holding her hand to compare how big mine is relative to hers.
She gave me a great opening to set the secret society tone in saying how everyone thought she was innocent when she’s not, and I used the opportunity to talk about how I don’t like the double standard that gets applied to women, where they have to pretend to be good girls and not sexual beings, and that no one should be judged for having sex as it’s a health part of life and we are all sexual people. I truly believe this, and I find this is a key message to convey on every first date and goes a long way in making a girl comfortable in fucking you if the attraction is also there.
After about 45 minutes as she finished most of her drink, I suggested that before she heads out that she try some of the nice dark chocolate I have in my room. “OK” she chirped happily, and up we went. I asked her to take off her shoes and left her alone a few minutes as I used the restroom, and found her standing by the window admiring the city view when I came out. Standing beside her we talked about the view and how short she is to me (150cm to my 191cm), so she stood on the low window still so we were standing face to face, and we started to kiss. It was so on the whole time I slowed things down just a tad to ensure she had enough foreplay and to also pre-empt any ASD that might pop up. None ever did. With ten minutes of making out she was on her knees sucking my dick and then onto the bed to fuck like animals.
A very submissive girl. They seem to know how to find me. She later said she could just tell I was dominant from the start. I used my belt to tie her up as I did her doggy, making her say how she’s my little slut as I fucked her hard (I made her pussy bleed onto the sheets and she wasn’t on her period). I came looking straight in her eyes. It was a great first new girl of the year and a good welcome to Malaysia. We cuddled a bit afterwards and she kept foundling my cock, and in about 20 minutes we went again for round 2. She was too sore to fuck again but gladly volunteered to suck me off and put a lot of heart in to it. Submissive girls love to please.
We didn’t have any chocolate until afterwards when I walked her down to her car with her wearing her cute little sun dress that she came in. It was a sweet ending to a very nice afternoon. The entire date end to end was about two and a half hours. She was off to dinner with family and drinks with friends that night. We’ll likely never see each other again.
This is the secret society and how most girls like to be at least for one phase of their young adult lives. Consequence free sex with a man who won’t judge them and who they can tell can deliver the goods. Be that man.
I’m at the airport waiting for my flight to Kuala Lumpur. Seems the perfect time to look back at my 12 days here in Bangkok. It’s been the core of my trip this year, I prefer to spend more time in fewer cities when I travel. It helps get a sense of the place and also to allow the time to meet and date girls.
I arrived in Bangkok with a fever from my lung infection and as well as stomach sickness. Cambodia was rough on me. But I knew Bangkok was a more modern city and I was determined to hit the dating sites hard to make the most of my time here. A few rounds of antibiotics finally cleared me up around the time I got here so it was game on.
I prefer to pipeline dates before arriving in a city, but with Bangkok I quickly found the Thai girls are flaky and very short term in nature. They like to book dates the day of or the day before, so although I was working tinder, bumble and OKC before I got here all those leads fizzled. As is usual for a new country I also found I needed to calibrate my game more to the locals. I added Thai Cupid to the sites I normally use and learned to adjust my approach using less English and more exchanges in the apps before pitching a date. I also had to book as many dates as possible, knowing that about half would flake the day of.
This brings me to the biggest difference I found with Thai girls verses any other country in which I’ve dated. Once you’ve agreed a date they text you a lot. Most of it is the girl asking a bunch of “comfort” questions such as “you work here?”, “why are you in Thailand?”, “do you have a girlfriend?” etc. In the end I slept with all three Thai girls I met in person with very little ASD. It felt as if they knew they’d want to sleep with me if they came out to meet, so instead they put their ASD into the texting up front. It was interesting to watch and of course I knew how to handle all the questions.
In the 7 days I gamed I had dates with four girls that actually didn’t flake. One was foreign (Kenyan) and the rest where Thai. I slept with all three Thai girls in the space of 5 days, similar to my results in NYC in May. All three were on the 2nd date. All three girls seemed to want to move towards boyfriend / girlfriend soon, more so than in other countries. I Enjoyed my time with all each of these lucky ladies, but I also missed having girls who speak better English (Vietnam, Hong Kong, and Japan were all much better for that), and I could see I wouldn’t be content dating here full time.
The first girl was a very petite 94 pound 22 year old with the body of a teenager and an extremely tight ass. She was very relaxed and admitted her favorite movie stars were Jason Stratham and Vin Diesel. The girl has her type and found it in me. First date was a one hour coffee date and the 2nd date was a drink at my buildings rooftop bar before heading to my room for “just one more drink.”
The 2nd was a slightly older 27 year old who didn’t speak much English. The first and 2nd dates were mostly done via eye contact, me talking with positive energy, and some google translate. A great reminder you really don’t need words to close the deal, the body language and spark between a man and a woman are much more ancient than human language. She was unsure on the 2nd date about sleeping with me, and we had a long eye contact session where she probed into my eyes and made the decision. No words, but I could see it happen as she made her choice. Very sweet.
The third girl was 19 and one of the most attractive girls I saw in Thailand. 5’7″ and 110 pounds. She was in to me from the start, both because I’m tall and we “fit” together, and also because of my frame. She has a very strong personality but I could sense underneath she was still a girl in search of a strong older man she could feel safe with. She fell into my much stronger fame and we just clicked. She mentioned how everyone found her to be a hard bitch in her social circle but with me she was nothing but a sweetheart. Another reminder that women will fall in to your frame as long as it’s real and congruent with you. Her and I had four dates over two days as I wanted to maximize the time with her before Miss Singapore arrive for my last four days and I shifted to spending all my time with her.
On the whole I found Bangkok a hot mess. Way too crowded, hot, and chaotic for me to be comfortable living there. My take is that it is highly over rated even compared to Saigon, but that westerners rate it highly because it’s cheap and because of the sex industry there. With this trip I have ruled out southeast Asia as a place where I would want to live part or all of the year. But despite the initial calibration frustration the girls I met made up for the roughness of the place. Besides the two girls in Singapore I’ve met over the last year these were some of my favorite girls yet on any of my travels.
I’m relaxing here in my Bangkok apartment after getting three new notches in the last week. I’ve got more leads for this trip but I’m not pursuing them hard. I’ve opted to have miss Singapore, one of my regulars, come to town for my last few days to ring in the new year with me.
In many ways this is a good summary of my 2018 with women. At 44 years old I’m having as much sex as I’ve ever had in my life, but compared to 2016 and 2017 it’s been more focused on a handful of regulars that I like, and less on new girls.
For the most part I think I’ve got the balance right. I continue to wonder if I can get better quality, as I usually do when I travel out of San Francisco. And I’ve also begun to wonder, “what comes next?” Do I continue this lifestyle indefinitely, I will I eventually want kids with a woman?
2017 was a banner year for me in game when my process finally came together. I started out 2017 losing one of my favorite girls of all time because I accidentally scheduled a date with her best friend, and so I had to start the year building a rotation from scratch and also frankly also deal with the suck of losing a girl that I had such a strong connection with.
By the end of the year I’ve developed a template for what I look for: young, cute, a bit of an outsider, and wanting to explore the world. In this template I’m the man this lucky girls gets to explore the big world with. It’s the right dynamic for me, and I’ve gotten good at finding the right sort of girls and leading them down this path.
Here are my stats and highlights from 2017:
- 79 first dates (mostly from online dating)
- 41 (52%) of these I chose not to pursue
- 12 (15%) I pursued but couldn’t close
- 26 (33%) I closed on the 1st date (4), 2nd date (20) or 3rd date (2)
- Average age of a new girl was 23 (I turned 43 in mid 2017)
- In my average month I slept with 5 different girls
- I also had 3 carryover girls from 2016
- I had sex 188 times in total, 63% was with four girls
- dating a former miss Ukraine I met from nightgame (didn’t close her) while out partying with CMQ and Goldmund
- the 19 year old Singaporean track runner
- the 19 year old Stanford student
- starting things off with “Little me” (18 when we met) who I’m still seeing regularly and is my current favorite
- Trips to Miami, Tokyo, NYC, Singapore, and Vietnam
With that background here are my stats and highlights form 2018:
- 78 first dates (again mostly online dating)
- 44 (56%) of these I chose not to pursue
- 15 (19%) I pursued but couldn’t close
- 18 (24%) I closed on the 1st date (3), 2nd date (13), or 3rd date (2)
- 1 (1% – Miss Puffy Jacket) are still in play as of this writing
- Average age of a new girl was 22 (I turned 44 in mid 2018)
- In my average month I slept with 4 different girls
- I also had 4 carryover girls from 2017
- I had sex 192 times in total, 66% was with three girls
- Meeting Nash and becoming friends. Him doing a feature post on my text game
- Finding out “Little Me” ghost wrote a popular essay about me – the perfect example of “doing it right” (she is not listed as the author – she ghost wrote this)
- Meeting Pancake Mouse and becoming friends.
- Closing the Singaporean girl and Miss Artsy within 3 days of each other. These are two of my top 10 favorite all time and I continue to see them regularly
- 3 new girls in 3 days during NYC trip, 3 new girls in 5 days during Bangkok trip
- Trips to NYC, Seattle, Portland, San Diego, Las Vegas, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Singapore, Cambodia, Bangkok, and Malaysia
So maybe I’ve hit a plateau in 2018, or maybe having 3 of my 10 all time favorites in my regular rotation at once slowed me down in terms of pursuing new girls. I think I’ve gotten pickier, and have chosen not to pursue marginal girls that I would have in the past just to get the notch. Instead I had my regular girls and new girls came from trips or on occasion when I found one to my liking or felt like some variety.
In addition for the Hong Kong, Singapore, and now for part of the Bangkok trip I’ve chosen to see miss Singapore instead of pursue new girls the whole time (I still closed a few girls on these trips). I had other work trips to several other cities where I didn’t game or fuck that entire trip, and I think that slowed down the notch rate as well.
Could I get better results from daygame? Maybe in another city, but I find it hugely time consuming. I’ve done 25 approaches from it this year and have one open lead back home from it that I may still close.
What I am most happy about is the stability I have with my three regulars. Close connections with each in their own unique way, and all three know the deal and that I see other girls. They are 20, 21, and 29 respectively. All have known my age from the start and all also know that I see other girls. I’ve had no drama with any of them, which again tells me my frame is strong and I’ve internalized the skills of converting girls to me and keeping them happy in my rotation.
2019 for me will be about deciding if I want to stay in San Francisco or move to another city, and also pursue other goals besides new women.
I’m currently in the middle of a three week trip through Cambodia, Thailand, and Malaysia. Every year my company does a two week holiday shutdown where we are forced to take vacation time. I’ve found that it’s incredibly boring and lonely in San Francisco during that time, everyone goes home to the families and everything is closed. It’s also the worst time of year to meet new women. So I use the opportunity to travel and explore the world instead.
Last year I had a tremendous trip to Singapore and Vietnam, together with one of my closest friends. I met one of my favorite girls of all time, a 19 year old Singaporean medical student, and we had a week long mini romance that I will always remember even though I’ll never see her again. I also met the girl I call “miss Saigon”, a gorgeous 18 year old Vietnamese girl, who I saw again on my fall trip to Vietnam. These two girls, plus the 3 weeks of adventure, reminded me of the big world out there that I have not been seeing due to my hip injury limiting my air travel for many years. The fact that I was twice able to meet and build a connection with a very attractive girl within a week of being in each country also was a stark reminder to me that dating in San Francisco is one of the worst locations for men, given the supply of men vs women. It just gets better most anywhere else.
The trip at the end of 2017 made me consider a move to the region. My goal for this trip in 2018, along with my follow up trips to Hong Kong, Singapore and Vietnam this fall, was to see if I’d really want to make the move to the region, and to explore candidate countries. That and enjoying a bit of travel game was my goal. I’ve always been fascinated with the temples at Angkor Wat and I heard Cambodia was a bit of the “wild wild east” and so had to give it a look for myself. I also wanted to check out Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur, as both have relatively easy residence visa programs. So the trip was set.
I prefer to pipeline dates online before I hit a new city. That way my first few days are filled with coffee and bar dates, and from these I can zero in on 1-2 girls I like to close. If daygame or nightgame provides more leads I add them to the list, but I find the pipeline approach is the best way to ensure I meet cute girls quickly in a new city. Talking with Nash at Days of Game who only does daygame confirms this, he finds it takes 2-3 weeks to typically start closing leads from daygame which makes sense. My travel schedule doesn’t permit me to invest that much time in a city so online is the way for me.
This trip I quickly found that online game in Cambodia is almost non-existent. I’m not sure if this is because of low levels of English, or that the girls who are open to date foreigners all work as bar girls and pro’s. But there just were not many girls on any of the dating apps. So I hit the nightclub and bar areas guys mentioned from the forums and quickly found all the attractive girls in these bars were pro’s. I tried my hand at getting a few to leave with me but they all wanted pay for play. I walked around the streets looking for bars that weren’t hooker bars, but everything I saw was bar girls and pros, and a pair of ladyboys even tried approaching me on the street.
The second day went better. A local girl slid into my instagram DM’s and I invited her over to my hotel for a swim. She was nice but unfortunately not up to my standards, so I used the opportunity to learn about good nightlife venues. My friend and I then went to the nicest sky bar in town that night to take in the view and to avoid the hookers. Great sunset view, and sure enough I spotted a cute girl drinking by herself which made for an easy opener. I managed to pull her to my hotel bar for a second drink. But I couldn’t pull her up to my place to “see the amazing view”. So it goes.
The third day though I woke up with a lung infection and spent the next 24 hours in bed with a fever. So much for my time in Phnom Penh. My friend and I went to Siem Reap and spent the next three days visiting the temples. It was hot and humid and I had a fever but I toughed it out, sleeping my way to recovery.
I did not close a Cambodian girl in Cambodia (I have closed a Cambodian american girl back home). I’d have needed to spend more time in Phnom Penh and learn where the locals hang out, and focused on day game and night game. But despite the challenges and the pain of being sick the temples were well worthwhile. And the whole week I knew 12 days in Bangkok was next on the itinerary.
I’ll save Bangkok for a future post.